Leadership Lessons from Dr. Josh Bullock

Summary

In this conversation, Dr. Josh Bullock, president of Lakeland College, shares his insights on leadership, the importance of education, and the role of community engagement. He reflects on the influence of his father on his leadership style, emphasizing the need for inclusivity and respect in organizations. Dr. Bullock discusses the challenges faced by educational institutions and the significance of creating a supportive environment for students. He highlights the importance of making education accessible and shares success stories from Lakeland College. The conversation concludes with key lessons for future leaders, emphasizing authenticity and the value of community involvement.

Takeaways

Leadership is about helping others succeed.
Creating safe spaces for communication is essential.
Every role in an organization deserves respect.
Education is a path to better opportunities.
Community engagement is critical for leaders.
Leaders should prioritize student growth and success.
Inclusivity fosters a positive organizational culture.
Personal stories can inspire and motivate others.
Be yourself and don't take yourself too seriously.
Surround yourself with diverse perspectives.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Personal Connections
02:35 Leadership Principles and Influences
06:08 The Importance of Communication in Leadership
07:26 New Chapter
10:13 Navigating Challenges and Crisis Management
13:56 The Family Dynamic in Leadership
15:03 Essential Qualities for Leaders in Higher Education
17:32 Making Education Accessible
21:01 Prioritizing Student Growth and Success
23:00 Success Stories and Impact of Education
24:05 The Power of Words in Education
26:06 Community Engagement and Leadership
28:08 The Role of Community Colleges
31:26 Engaging with Lakeland College
33:47 Leadership Habits and Growth
35:41 Influences on Leadership Style
39:35 Key Lessons for Future Leaders
44:24 Legacy and Impact at Lakeland College

Sound Bites

"Our words matter to students."
"Be yourself as a leader."
"Don't take yourself too seriously."

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Personal Connections
• 2:35 Leadership Principles and Influences
• 6:08 The Importance of Communication in Leadership
• 10:13 Navigating Challenges and Crisis Management
• 13:56 The Family Dynamic in Leadership
• 15:03 Essential Qualities for Leaders in Higher Education
• 17:32 Making Education Accessible
• 21:01 Prioritizing Student Growth and Success
• 23:00 Success Stories and Impact of Education
• 24:05 The Power of Words in Education
• 26:06 Community Engagement and Leadership
• 28:08 The Role of Community Colleges
• 31:26 Engaging with Lakeland College
• 33:47 Leadership Habits and Growth
• 35:41 Influences on Leadership Style
• 39:35 Key Lessons for Future Leaders
• 44:24 Legacy and Impact at Lakeland College

Transcript

Josh Bullock (00:45)
Welcome back to Faithful. I have the great opportunity to be here with Dr. Josh Bullard, the president of Lakeland College. For those of you who may not know, this is kind of the starting point of my school education.

Christopher Swing (00:45)
Welcome back to Faithful. I have the great opportunity to be here with Dr. Josh Bullock, the president of Lakeland College. For those of you who may not know, this is kind of the starting point of my post high school education. I

Josh Bullock (01:02)
I needed that stepping stone between high school and university. And

Christopher Swing (01:02)
needed that stepping stone between high school and university and

Josh Bullock (01:08)
I came to Lakeland College, and there were a bunch of people that lashed onto me.

Christopher Swing (01:08)
I came to Lakeland College and there were a bunch of people that latched onto me.

Josh Bullock (01:14)
Their names are rolling through my head as we're sitting here. Most of them aren't here anymore because that was quite a while ago. But they did have lasting impact. And I was a student ambassador here. was very engaged in the college campus. Mainly worked in the admissions side of things. I think I was even a part-time employee

Christopher Swing (01:14)
Their names are rolling through my head as we're sitting here and most of them are here anymore because that was quite a while ago. But they did have a lasting impact and I was a student ambassador here. I was very engaged in the college campus, mainly worked in the admissions side of things. I think I was even a part-time.

Josh Bullock (01:37)
for a while, which makes me look back and wonder what they were thinking back then.

Christopher Swing (01:37)
for a while, makes me look back and wonder what they were thinking back then.

it was a great experience for me, and that's why this is part of the foundational series. And I've had a lot of opportunity to get to know Josh over the years and just an amazing gentleman that truly embodies a lot of the leadership qualities that are important to me. And I think...

Josh Bullock (01:43)
But it was a great experience for me and that's why this is part of the foundational series. And I've had a lot of opportunity to get to know Josh over the years. Just an amazing gentleman that truly embodies a lot of the leadership qualities that are important to me. I think

enabled me to see the appropriate way to handle myself.

Christopher Swing (02:05)
Enabled me to see the appropriate way to handle myself back

Josh Bullock (02:10)
back when maybe I was still pretty well in the China shop.

Christopher Swing (02:11)
when maybe I was still pretty young and full in the China shop ish and and Help me to grow I think into who I am as a leader today. So Pleasure to have you today. Dr. Bullock and I look forward to getting some of your feedback in some of your leadership Perspectives as we walk through through today's episode

Josh Bullock (02:17)
and helped me to grow, I think, into who I am as a leader today. So, to have you today, Dr. Bullock, and I look forward to getting some of your feedback and some of your leadership perspectives as we walk through today's episode.

Well, thanks, Chris. And I'm honored to be here and humbled. And I want to thank you because I know even after your Lakeland experience, you've stayed engaged and involved, which good leaders do, to help make a difference for future generations being involved with our foundation.

Christopher Swing (02:35)
Bill, thanks, Chris. I'm honored to be here and humbled. And I want to thank you because I know even after your Likeland experience, you stayed engaged and involved, which good leaders do to help make a difference for future generations being involved with our foundation

and some of the work you've done to ensure that others have opportunities for education. Kudos for that. So looking back on your career, what leadership principles do you feel like guided you the most? Well,

Josh Bullock (02:47)
some of the work you've done to ensure that others have opportunities for education. Kudos for that. So looking back on your career, what leadership principles do you feel like

Well, I think

Christopher Swing (03:03)
I think what's guided me the most,

Josh Bullock (03:03)
what's guided me the most Chris, probably is my father. And that's probably a cliche for many individuals, but my dad, and I'll share a story maybe in a bit, but he was one of the kindest, humblest leaders I've ever known. And what he taught me early on about leadership was it takes a village. It takes everybody in the organization to help.

move forward. And that really stuck with me, whether it was someone who was making sure your buildings were clean, to someone who was teaching in the classroom, to someone who was leading the organization. Everybody has a role and no one's role is more important than another. Every role is critical to an organization and that's really guided me that everybody deserves that dignity and respect in their role and to be respected for what they bring to the organization.

And it probably dovetails with servant leadership, that idea that as leaders, our goal is to help others be successful. It should never be about how do we make ourselves successful, but how do we help others become successful and find their right path, whether it's within an organization for us as educators, it's whether it's a student who's looking to be educated. But that principle of servant leadership and reminding ourselves every day that every single one of us has an important role in our organization.

It still guides me today.

So I'm not here.

Christopher Swing (04:24)
So I'm not terribly

surprised that one of your parents guided you. I I think that's true of most of us. Did your dad have a leadership role in an organization

Josh Bullock (04:30)
of us.

to your dad.

He did. And so I just want to share a little bit about my dad's story because I think it really speaks to how he evolved as a leader and how it's impacted my life. So my father at age 10, December 23rd, 1942, his mother passed away and there were 12 kids in the family. And at 10 years old, his father couldn't afford to keep all of the children. So some of his siblings went into an orphanage. And my father at 10 years old went and knocked on doors of farms to see if someone would take him in.

so he could work to support them and also for room and board and food. And he was lucky enough to find a family that took him in so he could finish grade school, finish high school. And he knew that for him, education was going to be an important part of his life. And he had no funds, no resources. And so he went into the military, enlisted in the military.

during the end of the Korean War and used the GI bill to get an education. That's really where he met my mother was in college. And so I'm thankful he did that because I wouldn't be here otherwise. But while he was in college or right before he went to college, I should say, after he out the military, he contracted tuberculosis. And the reason he went to the University of Wisconsin-Madison was because that's where they

placed him to get his treatment was at the hospital in Madison. He was from out east, so he didn't know Wisconsin. And he was in a tuberculosis ward, for over a year. And he was the only person in his ward who didn't pass away from tuberculosis. And that, he said, really impacted his life and really got him to think about cherishing what was important in life. He was a very strong Christian. It made him very spiritual.

He always told me that that carried over into his work life and what helped him grow as a leader because as he moved through organizations, people wanted to work with him because he respected everybody, treated everybody exactly the same no matter what role they had in the organization. him sharing these stories with me helped form who I am and what I believe in.

the importance of treating everybody with that dignity and respect. I'm sure there are a lot of stories like that out there. My father wrote a book about it called No Bull. Before he passed away, he just wanted to capture his life's journey. It's a testament to what can happen when you realize it does take a village of people to make the world go round. That's what inspired me, and it still inspires me as a leader today.

Christopher Swing (06:52)
as a leader today. Wow, that gives

me goosebumps.

Chris (06:56)
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Christopher Swing (07:26)
So, you know, I think about the organization that you lead and it's a diverse group of students, a diverse group of faculty and staff. You know, how do you ensure everyone feels heard and valued? I think, I mean, we get where it comes from, but like, how do you effectively put that into practice?

Josh Bullock (07:27)
So I think about the organization.

lead and it's a diverse group of students, a diverse group of faculty and staff. How do you ensure everyone feels heard and valued at? I think, I mean, we get where it comes from, but how do you effectively put that into practice?

It's probably one of the hardest things in any organization. I think you'll hear that. Pick any organization. The one thing they'll say is the hardest challenge is communication. Being heard.

Christopher Swing (07:52)
It's probably one of the hardest things in any organization.

Josh Bullock (08:03)
Feeling heard and so don't think anybody's perfect. am absolutely not perfect at that by any stretch. But I think one of the important pieces is creating safe spaces for people to voice their opinions. In doing that in a non-judgmental setting where you have the recognition that we may not always agree. Someone may share a perspective that I don't agree with or I may share a perspective they don't agree with. But making sure that it doesn't become personal that you have a safe space for people to share those perspectives.

Recognizing everybody has beliefs and opinions. Everybody comes from different walks of life, so our backgrounds are different. What our experiences are are very different. taking time to appreciate that. It doesn't necessarily always mean that it's going to change a decision, but making sure that you at least give that opportunity for someone's voice to be heard. And again, recognizing that disagreement doesn't have to be personal. We can disagree on an issue and I can talk with staff members and

At least allow them to hear my perspective and hear, allow myself to hear their perspective, but recognize in the end we may agree to disagree, but having the respect to at least hear each other out. And maybe in some points it will impact our decision making process or it will have influence on the things we do. And I think that's really important to any organization to having that structure and those safe spaces to communicate.

Christopher Swing (09:18)
Yeah, I think there's a lot of value there and something that maybe our federal government could use a little bit of experience with these days. just doesn't seem like we have the level of conversations and some of those conversations can be difficult conversations. Absolutely, the most difficult conversations are those...

Josh Bullock (09:33)
Absolutely. most difficult conversations are those we tend

to avoid the most. It's easy to have a conversation where we agree. Where you know you're talking to someone who has the same mindset. It's the difficult conversations that most people avoid because most people don't like conflict. But I think you can have those conversations without making it a conflict situation. Where you can come in and agree that we don't necessarily see eye to eye on the issue but that's not going to impact my relationship with you personally.

that I'll still respect you after that conversation.

Christopher Swing (10:05)
So what

are some of the key moments in your leadership here at Lakeland College that have reinforced your commitment to putting people first?

Josh Bullock (10:13)
Oh boy, you know, think probably the biggest would be the budget crisis of 2015 that we faced as institutions. So as, as many in Illinois know, um, we went two years without any state funding and for a small rural community college, state funding is really critical to our survival. And so when that hit, you know, many of our peer institutions across the state started laying off staff. They tried to balance their budget.

We really had that moment where we worked with our board of trustees and said, listen, we've always talked about being a family. And that does mean families always agree, but we're a family and we have each other's back. And now is the time really to prove it. And so we went through the budget crisis and retained almost all of our staff. We didn't lose any faculty. We made a commitment to say, we're going to weather this storm because we know there's going to be a rainbow at the end of the storm, right?

that eventually we'll get state funding. And so we said, we're going to do all we can to keep the college afloat. And that included the Department of Corrections program. So as a college, we're the largest provider of correctional education in the state. serve 23 adult facilities where we have full-time staff, full-time associate dean, full-time support that provide education. At that time as well, the state of Illinois didn't have the resources to pay its bills for us for the Department of Corrections.

And we realize as an educational institution as well, one of the most important things we can do is maintain that educational experience for those students who are incarcerated because ours is about providing hope and a path to something better. And where else is that shown then in the Department of Corrections where we're helping somebody gain a skill before they're released so they can come out on a real positive foot? I'll tell you it was challenging times, but...

It really demonstrated that we were a family and it taught me a lot about leadership because we were nervous. We approached our bargaining units and said, listen, I know we have contracts in place for wage increases, but if you're willing to do this for us, we'll make sure that none of your staff will lose their jobs. We're going to make that commitment. And, you know, I give them a lot of credit. They all stepped up to the plate and said, yes, we're willing to partner with you because it was important to them to keep the Lakeland family together as well.

And that to me was kind of another epiphany of leadership that we can accomplish a lot more when we do things together and really work together than we can in isolation.

Christopher Swing (12:34)
So you hit

on one of the topics that I love to talk about and it seems to be a pretty significant dichotomy in the leadership world. And you do the same thing that I do. So we're on the same side of the coin, but we like to consider our organizations a family. And that seems to be a hot topic. And I don't know why it's such a hot topic because I've had some of the best arguments and by best, I mean like the most heated arguments with anyone with my family.

Josh Bullock (12:50)
And that seems to be a hot topic. And I don't know why it's such a hot topic because I've had some of best arguments, and by best I mean like the most heated arguments with anyone, with my family.

Christopher Swing (13:02)
And we agree to disagree at times as a family.

Josh Bullock (13:02)
And we agree to disagree at times as a family.

But it seems like in the leadership world, there's so many out there that are suggesting that it's not a family. It's supposed to be a professional sports team or something. They make all these analogies that supposedly break this idea or concept that we're a family.

Christopher Swing (13:07)
But it seems like in the leadership world, there's so many out there that are suggesting that it's not a family, like it's supposed to be a professional sports team or something. They pick all these analogies that supposedly break this idea or concept that we're a family. And I don't know what you think about that. just, everything that

Josh Bullock (13:26)
I don't know what you think about that. just everything that

maybe our values are just different than the people that that believe that. I firmly believe that, you know, I look out, I have much more empathy and I have much more desire to see my.

Christopher Swing (13:30)
Maybe our values are just different than the people that believe that, but I firmly believe that, you know, I look out, I have much more empathy and I have much more desire to see my

Josh Bullock (13:48)
organization of the people that work for us succeed than I do for the general population. So to

Christopher Swing (13:48)
organization or the people that work for us succeed than I do for the general population. so...

To me, that is similar and indicative to my experience with my own family. Do you have any thoughts? I just noticed that you'd said the family and I thought I was intrigued by that. I agree with you. I think if.

Josh Bullock (13:57)
me that was similar and indicative to my experience with my own family. Do you have any thoughts? just noticed that you said that family. I agree with you. I think if you think about those those who work, I mean, my gosh, we spend as much time

in the workplace as we do at home. And we get to know the people we work with. And much like a family, you have those who you work very closely with, who might be like your siblings and your family structure. You have those who might be your cousins. You might have those who are your second cousins. But I do think there's something to that fact that we are family. I mean, case in point, think about when you have someone at work that goes through a traumatic health issue. Look at how people rally around and help raise money and

provide meals and help them with their around their house. mean, that's what a family does. And so I think I think we can have family at work. It doesn't mean that it's always going to be perfect, but no family is. But I completely agree with you. I think we do. We do make connections at work we wouldn't make with others outside of an organization. Yeah, and all of us have a crazy uncle or somebody. So it's not like you could say.

Christopher Swing (15:03)
Yeah, and all of us have a crazy uncle or somebody in their family. So it's not like you can say,

oh, well, everybody's family's perfect. At least mine wasn't. So maybe that's part of the problem is I had a crazy family. no, I really feel that way of my team. I mean, shoot, the only difference between my home family and my work family is I get to pick the people that are part of my team.

Josh Bullock (15:10)
At least mine wasn't.

Christopher Swing (15:29)
Right at work and at home, just, you know, it's whatever it is. anyways, what qualities do you believe are essential for a leader in higher education today? There are some that I think are.

Josh Bullock (15:37)
There are some that I think are really

critical. Probably the most important in today's environment is a sense of humor.

It is so easy to get bogged down in all of the challenges that surround us. In every way, shape, and form, federally, on the state level, just demographically, all the things that burden us as institutions and leaders. And you need to have a sense of humor and not take yourself too seriously as well as a leader. And I think that also dovetails with just having patience. And as you said, Chris, the compassion, having

When you work with individuals, having compassion for those people that you might treat as your family. But you also need to be a disciplined risk taker. Think of innovation as being something that's not scary, but something that can be invigorating for an organization. That's a pretty critical piece. And just being open-minded as a leader, and at least for us in higher education today,

as a leader and it's probably the same in the corporate world, having fiscal acumen is ever more essential than it would have been in the past. The fiscal management of organizations has become so complex that that's something I think all needers really need to take seriously is understanding the fiscal impact of the organization. That's pretty critical and being data-driven in general.

Christopher Swing (16:45)
the

Josh Bullock (16:59)
We have access to a wealth of data and I think AI is accelerating that access to data. And being able to truly understand data and sift through it, think from a technical perspective is really important for leaders today. And so I just want to reiterate that we have some.

Christopher Swing (17:10)
And so I just want to reiterate that we have someone

in higher ed that's talking about innovation. And I think that gives you some perspective of where Lakeland is, because those are oxymorons, in my opinion. Like when I think of higher ed, I think of, this is how we've always done it. And this is how we're going to continue to do it.

Josh Bullock (17:17)
and I think that gives you some perspective.

because those are actually morons in my opinion. When I think of higher ed, I think of this is how we've always done it, this is how we're gonna continue to

it. My experience at Lakeland is very different from that perspective and I think you guys do a great So Lakeland's been recognized for student success initiatives and many of them.

Christopher Swing (17:32)
My experience at Lakeland is very different from that perspective and I think you guys do a great job So Lakeland's been recognized for student success initiatives and many of them.

Josh Bullock (17:44)
The thing that I think is most intriguing about...

Christopher Swing (17:44)
the thing that I think is most intriguing about an organization like Lakeland College is it really gives access to people who maybe otherwise couldn't seek furthering their education.

Josh Bullock (17:47)
It really gives access to people who maybe otherwise couldn't seek furthering their education.

Christopher Swing (17:58)
And that could be in a multitude of ways. You could get a certificate specific to workforce type education and learning how to do a skill or whatever. Or you could get a degree that's going to transfer somewhere else. And I think that's what is so intriguing

Josh Bullock (17:58)
that could be in a multitude of ways. You could get a certificate specific to a workforce type education and learning how to do a skill or whatever. Or you could get a degree that's going to transfer somewhere else. And I think that's what is so interesting.

Christopher Swing (18:17)
and probably why the governor is looking at ways to expand, ways to utilize organizations like yours.

What drives your passion for making education accessible?

Josh Bullock (18:28)
I think a number of things. I shared my dad's story and I wouldn't be here if there weren't means for him to have education accessible and affordable. You know, as a young man, poor, growing up in rural Vermont,

Christopher Swing (18:28)
I think a number of things. shared my day.

Josh Bullock (18:40)
with no access to resources, he realized the military, as I mentioned, provided the opportunity for education. So for me, it is so important that as community colleges, we are available and accessible to everybody. So many of our residents in our communities, they struggle financially. to not have accessible higher education for them where it's affordable and there's financial help available, they wouldn't come.

They wouldn't be able to find their passion or find that guiding light that's going to help them pursue a career path. And so that's a big piece of it is understanding that our communities need us. Our communities want that desire to better themselves and find a good path. And correctional education is the same way. Every time I attend a correctional center commencement, I mean, I've been at tears at some of the commencements. I'll share a story that

Years ago I was at a commencement and a young man who was the valedictorian, they always let the valedictorian speak, came up to me afterwards and it was right before the holidays, right before Christmas. And he said to me, I just want to thank you in Lakeland College for helping me get my degree. And I said, well, you're welcome. And I hear that a lot from individuals. So I just, you know, thank you. I appreciate that. And the young man was probably in his mid thirties and he looked at me and he said, I don't think you understand what this really means to me.

He said, I've been incarcerated since I was a teenager and my parents are visiting me and this is the first time in my life I can show them that I'm worthy and I can accomplish something. And that to me, I I started tearing up because we see it every day, the impact that we have, but to hear those personal stories, that tells you how important the work is that we do to provide opportunities.

Christopher Swing (20:19)
I think that's amazing. And I think it's a blessing to our communities. And to be honest, it fills gaps in many places I don't know if anybody's tried to get a trades person lately, but there are so many things that we need people to be seeking education in. And I think this is a great place for them to land to be able to provide some of those services.

Josh Bullock (20:22)
Yeah, it fills gaps in many places.

absolutely. is a shortage of skilled workers. We know there is.

And we have those opportunities to help.

Christopher Swing (20:41)
I mean, it's crazy how long you have to wait to get something simple done at your house. Absolutely. Absolutely. is a shortage of skilled workers. We know there is. And we have those opportunities to help

Josh Bullock (20:54)
meet those workforce demands while providing someone an education

Christopher Swing (20:54)
meet those workforce demands while providing someone

Josh Bullock (20:57)
that's going to be a life sustaining salary and career.

Christopher Swing (21:01)
So how do you ensure

that the culture at Lakeland prioritizes the student growth, both academically and personally?

Josh Bullock (21:09)
You know, think

I've been blessed to be able to carry on a longstanding tradition from many presidents going years back that have really fostered within Lakeland College that student first mindset and always asking the question, what's best for students? And I've been honored to be able to carry on that tradition. And I think that's something that is alive and well at Lakeland is always considering what we can do to help students that student first mindset.

And it goes along with that family culture we talked about, making sure that it's not just the staff that feel part of the family, but making sure the students feel part of the family, that when they have a question or they're feeling down or maybe they're feeling uncertain, they can always reach out to somebody at the college. So it takes some shepherding, but it is so ingrained in who we are in our culture as an institution that I never worry that people are out there not

thinking about what's always in the best interest of our student.

Christopher Swing (22:05)
And I'll tell you just from my perspective,

you know, I'm biased and I was more engaged than the average student, though I did lose the the vote to be student trustee. I will say while I was here and I'm still a little bitter about that. To Darcy, I can't remember what her last name was, but but I do think that, I experienced what it's like to be first and.

Josh Bullock (22:10)
I was more engaged than average students.

So.

But I do think that experienced what it's like to be first.

And that was true when I was here. I can't imagine that that's changed. so that's one of the strengths

Christopher Swing (22:33)
And that was true when I was here and I can't imagine that that has changed. so that's one of the strengths, of

college. So can you share a story of a student or a program that stands out as success kind of under your leadership? I know that, I mean, I'll be honest with you, that story about the student in the prison system.

Josh Bullock (22:41)
So can you share a story of a student or a program that stands out as success kind of under your leadership? I know that, I mean, I'll be honest with you, that story about the student president system

about the only two years, I mean, that's, I can just imagine what it was like for him, but anyways,

Christopher Swing (23:00)
about brought me to tears. mean, that's, I can just imagine what it was like for him, but anyways,

Yeah, there are so many stories that.

Josh Bullock (23:08)
Yeah, there are so many stories that

really speak to...

Christopher Swing (23:14)
really speak to.

Josh Bullock (23:15)
the success of not me, the success of Lakeland College and that I'll share another correctional story because this is one that literally left me stunned when it happened in it. I've shared it around the college in it because it was so powerful. Oftentimes we forget the impact that we all have. We go about our day to day routine and we forget that something that might occur for us on a regular basis might be the first time for a student. So.

Last year I was in Chicago and I was attending a conference and I was in the hotel lobby with my wife and we were just talking and a young man came up to me and he said he was probably maybe early 30s. He said, hey, could you take a picture of my friend and I in front of this beautiful statue that was in the lobby of this hotel? I said absolutely. So he handed me his phone and I took a picture. He looked at me he said, I know you from somewhere. You're famous.

I can assure you I am not famous." And he said, no, I do. know you from somewhere. You just, you look so familiar. And I said, well, can tell you I'm not famous. just, I work for a community college. I'm president of a community college. I'm here for a conference. And his eyes lit up and he said, that's where I know you from. He said, you're the president of Lakeland College. And I said, I am. How did you know that? And he said, well, I was a student while I was incarcerated. And he said, you came to our

commencement and you talked with me and I told you what I wanted to do and I said my goal was to eventually get my doctorate and help other people in my situation and you looked at me and he said you know what you can do whatever you put your mind to you've got the talent to do that and he smiled when he looked at me and he said I'm here in Chicago working on my doctorate in social justice he said my goal is to help those who've been in my situation and Chris I was literally

speechless. I didn't know what to say. And what it reminded me of was that our words matter. So many students when they share their story, you give them that encouragement and let them know they've gotten this far and they've got the ability, but to personalize that and the impact it had on a single individual to know that our words matter. And what may seem to us because we talk to so many individuals throughout our day that those words matter to that individual. And I think that

speaks to us everything we do, everything we do, whether it's helping a student who can't find directions on campus, whether it's talking to somebody on the phone who's frustrated, our words matter. And that's had a profound impact on me as a leader. And I mean, my gosh, how proud I am of that student who is working on their dissertation now, coming from a correctional background because

They felt encouraged throughout their educational journey, not just from me, but from the people that they worked with. that, there are so many of those stories that make what we do such a humbling and rewarding experience at the same time.

Christopher Swing (26:06)
Great, sorry. So, I think about my community service and what that has done for me as a leader. And I encourage you guys all the time to get involved because, well, two things. First of all, I always say the same thing, and that is that...

Josh Bullock (26:06)
So, think about my community service and what that has done for me a leader. And I encourage you guys all the time to get in

A lot of times I get involved because of some level of frustration.

Christopher Swing (26:22)
A lot of times I got involved because of some level of frustration

with something that was going on. And then once I got involved, I realized I knew nothing about what was actually going on. But in addition to that, the real advantage that you get is it's great training. It's such a great way to see how organizations operate differently. I frequently talk to you guys about

Josh Bullock (26:27)
And then once I got involved, realized I knew nothing about what was actually going on. But in addition to that, the real advantage that you get is it's great training. It's such a great way to see how organizations operate differently. I frequently talk to you guys about

my experience on the board of the, the, the vice chair and that's probably one of the greatest experiences I've ever had in my career. And it's because I see so many different things and I, get to experience, through other people, what to do and what not to do. But Josh and I have the opportunity to serve together on the FM Chamber of Congress Board.

Christopher Swing (26:48)
my experience on the board of the bank that I sit on as the vice chair. And that's probably one of the greatest experiences I've ever had in my career. And it's because I see so many different things.

And I get to experience, through other people, what to do and what not to do. But Josh and I had the opportunity to serve together on the FEM Chamber of Commerce board,

Josh Bullock (27:16)
and he's significantly

Christopher Swing (27:16)
and he's involved.

significantly more in the community than I'll ever be. And I think part of that is just who you are as a person. But I also think that you really wanted to engage in our community and make that visible in that, you know, this organization was here for the community. And I'm really appreciative of that. But

Josh Bullock (27:18)
more in the community than I'll ever be. And I think part of that is just who you are as a person, but I also think that you really wanted to engage in our community and make that visible and that this organization is here for the community. And I really appreciate that.

My question for you is how has that involvement influenced your perspective on leadership and the community and maybe even furthering

Christopher Swing (27:39)
my question for you is how has that involvement influenced your perspective on leadership and the community and maybe even further?

than that also community engagement.

Josh Bullock (27:48)
that also community engagement? I think as leaders we have an obligation to be involved in our communities and I love your story Chris because it really I think sometimes leaders go into a situation thinking I'm going to go in there and I'm going to fix it because there's something I don't like about a situation.

where the reality is leadership is about coming into an organization and collectively helping to make that organization or that community better. You think about community service and how many people are involved from all walks of life in so many organizations, whether it's a civic organization or a social support organization, and they come into it with the desire to help. And I think

Again as leaders we have an obligation to be part of those conversations and to find ways to lift our community up to grow the future leaders. Because as we do that as you mentioned just engaging with people on a board you might have people on that board who've been on there six or seven years where you're new and you learn from them. And you know that's part of passing on that torch. One of my favorite quotes and it's from an old Greek proverb and I'll kind of share it in my way is that a true leader is someone who plants a tree who's shade they'll never enjoy.

And you know, that is absolutely true. That if we're truly wanting to engage for the right reasons, it shouldn't be about us. It should be about the collective of all of us working together. One of my other favorite stories is the Bridge Builder. I don't know if you've ever heard that story. And I'll paraphrase this as well because I think it also speaks to why we need to be involved in our communities and why we need to be involved on school boards and civic organization boards and again, not from a position of power.

but from a position of wanting to help make things better for everyone. So there's a story about the bridge builder. It's about a gentleman who's walking from point A to try to get to the big city. And he gets to a point where he reaches this huge, huge chasm, like the Grand Canyon. And he realizes the only way he can get to his goal at the city is to traverse this canyon.

And so he spends days climbing down one side of the canyon, gets to the bottom, rests and spends days climbing up the next side of the canyon. And as soon as he gets to the other side of the canyon, he starts building a bridge going back to the other side. And as he's building that bridge, a passerby walks up and says, sir, what are you doing? Why are you building that bridge? You've struggled already to go down one side of the canyon and up the other. You've made it. What are you doing? And he said, I did make it. But my goal is to ensure that the path of those who follow me

doesn't have to be as challenging as mine. And that's why we participate and be involved in the community, is to ensure that those who are using social services or in our school districts, that they have the tools and resources to be successful the way we did. It's about giving back. So I've loved being involved in the community. Again, something I learned from my father who was involved wherever he could be, that that is our obligation.

We have an obligation as part of being in a society to help out and use our talents to help others.

Chris (30:55)
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Josh Bullock (31:26)
So that pretty much plays.

Christopher Swing (31:27)
So that pretty much plays

right into my next question. So, you know, what role do you see Lakeland playing and strengthening the community here? Well, as a community college.

Josh Bullock (31:36)
Well, as a community college,

mean, our formal name has community right in the name. Our formal statutory name is Community College District 517. So it's in our name. We really encourage all of our staff members to get involved and to get on the civic boards, the school boards, to be a voice for their community at Lakeland College, but also to be a voice for our students in Lakeland College within the community. I think we play a really significant role.

We were founded in 1966. The taxpayers voted to create Lakeland College. And again, I think from an institutional perspective, we have an obligation to our communities to be engaged. And so we all promote getting involved. We have staff that serve on all kinds of boards. And oftentimes they do that during their workday because it is so related to what we do as a community college. So to me that

That civic engagement from a college perspective is critical to who we are. It's critical to our foundation.

Christopher Swing (32:31)
So I was going to ask you a different question, but I'm going to change it up because I think we've pretty much answered that one. And that is, how can people in our community engage with Lakeland College to help? Great question. There are so many ways to get engaged.

Josh Bullock (32:32)
So I was going to ask you a different question, but I'm going to change

Thanks.

Great question. There are so many ways to get engaged.

Our foundation board that you served on. Talk about serving on our foundation board. Come serve on an advisory committee. We have times when we have all of our programs that work with industry put together advisory committees. Come in and help us formulate those advisory committees. Come get engaged on campus events. We have campus events on a weekly basis. Come to campus, engage with the students.

Come be a classroom speaker, even if you don't think you have a talent, if you have something to share, come offer that. Because that's, we're trying to help our students see a well-rounded perspective about all issues, and we welcome that. If you have something you want to share, come put on a presentation in our theater for students. there are so many ways as a community college for individuals to get involved.

We welcome that. We welcome that level of involvement. If you have thoughts to share our ideas, call one of us up. Call one of the leaders up and say, I have an idea or a thought that I want to share. That's again part of who we are as a community college.

Christopher Swing (33:47)
So, now obviously we know Josh as you are today and there was a process, right? Where you started from and where you are. What leadership habits or disciplines have helped you to grow the most? Boy, that's a really good

Josh Bullock (33:56)
your ship.

Boy, that's a really good

question. And there are, think for many leaders, there's such an evolution, so many habits that we develop over time that maybe we forget that they're habits. For me, one of the things I love is if you've ever done colors, I'm very green. So I love data. I love learning. I love reading. So I'm a voracious reader. It just helps keep me grounded as to what's happening in the industry. But I think one of my other habits is relying on the people around you. Leadership is not a singular activity.

It's as we've talked throughout this conversation, it's really a collective activity. Rely on those people around you I found has been extremely important. My father always told me, surround yourself with people that are smarter than you. And I think what he meant was surround yourself with people who have different talents, backgrounds, experiences, because that's going to make for stronger decisions. But don't just surround yourself with people like that, listen to them. Don't think that

because you're a leader, you're in the chair that makes the decisions. I mean, in some cases, ultimately that may be the case, but in many, you have to rely on those teams around you. And that's probably the habit that I use the most is relying on the people around me. Because we're human beings just like everybody else and we don't have all the answers. We might have tools to help us decipher the answers from all the information we garner, but that's critical. And I think the other discipline is just

Keep yourself informed. Don't ever stop learning because what might have worked or what might have been something successful even two or three years ago, it might not be the same tools. Who would thought AI would have come around, what it'll be three years this coming December and transformed what we do already in such a short period of time. So don't ever become complacent. Really think about that habit of continually learning.

Christopher Swing (35:41)
So who are some of the people, and I know you mentioned your dad and hopefully you'll further expand upon that if this is who you think of, but who are some of the people or experiences that have shaped your approach to leading an institution like Lakeland College? You're right, my dad.

Josh Bullock (35:55)
You're right, my dad was

again probably one of my biggest influences for how to lead. But even at Lakeland College, there have been people that have shaped who I am as a leader at the college as well. And I think some of those people, Bob Luther. mean, Bob Luther is a titan of community colleges, not just in Illinois, but in the nation. He was an amazing man. And he really, as a trustee, was kind of my mentor.

And he always said, I'm not here to lead the college. I've done that. My goal is to support you. And he's the one that would always remind me every time we were thinking through decisions, he would remind me, remember, we're here for the students. The students must come first. And so he was very influential. I think of Tina Stovall, our former vice president for student service, someone who I respect just tremendously. And she was the type of person when you'd be in a meeting would always ask the questions to get you to think,

completely different than how you were thinking. And not in a way that was confrontational, but truly out of a leadership position of saying, let's think about these other perspectives. And I so appreciated that, that she would say, well, what about this? And get you to think differently and always reminded us about the importance of treating our staff with dignity and respect and always remembering that.

our students have a completely different perspective than we do. We might be comfortable where we're at. We might have financial security, but many of them don't. so from Tina was, I still respect her as a leader. One of my favorite leaders I've ever had the chance to work with. And then other trustees like Mike Sullivan, who 37 years on our board of trustees, but brought so much history and used history as a tool to help us understand.

not as a way to say, we should be doing this because that's how we've always done that. And I have learned so much from Mike in that respect and the importance of looking at our history as a tool to help us make future decisions as a guide, but not as a blueprint. And so those are some people I really I've relied on, you know, and I've relied on my faith. Faith is very important to thinking about how we

behave and act as human beings and as individuals. And as I reflect back as a Christian, you know, how Jesus worked as a leader. And Jesus didn't spend his time working as a leader, talking only or specifically to the Pharisees and the kings. As matter of fact, it was just the opposite. It was the lepers and those who were less fortunate, who he built his strength from.

And I think that's been a lesson for me as a leader again as reminding us who we're here to serve and hearing that voice. We're not going to always necessarily go to hear the voices of the existing kings or Pharisees, those who are in positions of power, but listening to those who aren't in the positions of power to understand their needs. all those facets have shaped me as a leader. And I'm sure every leader has stories of those people who

bring just some piece of themselves to our leadership journey and give us that piece that helps. They might not be a brick of our leadership wall that we build, but it might be the grout that goes into the wall. So all the people that we interact with that help build who we are as leaders.

Christopher Swing (39:08)
Well, that was a blast from the past because I experienced every one of those people and I have extremely fond memories of every single person you talked about. And I couldn't agree more with all of your perspectives. I mean, even back to Dr. Luther and, the Stovall's, both of them are just phenomenal, phenomenal folks. I just have a lot of personal value for both Jeff and Tina.

Josh Bullock (39:11)
Thanks everyone.

hell.

So.

Christopher Swing (39:35)
Mike's old and wow, I spent a lot of time with Mike, so very cool. If there was one key lesson that you could pass to the next generation of leaders in higher ed or even maybe a student that's going out to be a leader, what would it be?

Josh Bullock (39:40)
If there was one key lesson that you could pass to the next generation of leaders in higher education or even maybe a student, that's going out to be a leader.

Boy, my lesson, I think, would simply be be yourself. Be yourself as a leader. Don't take yourself too seriously. You think about how many leaders don't smile, don't laugh. They scowl. They enter a room and really treat everything as if it's the most serious thing on the planet. And we're all just human beings trying to do our best as leaders.

We may be misunderstood at times because again, as human beings, we're just trying to do the best we can for organizations. It doesn't mean we'll always make the right decisions. But I think knowing that we all do our best to make the right decisions and that comes with if you're going to ask people to follow, make sure they know who you really are. Because folks aren't going to follow somebody who's not true to themselves. And I know

All of us as leaders have to understand that there are going to be people that don't like who we are. And you know, that's okay because we're not going to want to have coffee with everybody we interact with or be friends with them. It comes down to that respect. But for new leaders, don't try to be something you're not. Be yourself and never take yourself too seriously. If you can't laugh at yourself, I mean, my gosh.

You have to be able to laugh at yourself because we all do things that we scratch our head and say, wow, I can't believe I did that. So it gives people the freedom to be themselves as well and to realize it's okay to make mistakes and own up to those. And, hey, you fall up the stairs walking to commencement and you may say, my gosh, I can't believe I did that. But it just reinforces, you know what? We're just as human as the next person.

We all have our challenges. So yeah, be yourself.

I think that's great advice.

Christopher Swing (41:28)
think that's great advice.

the other thing I will tell you is kind of, I think, leading to what Dr. Bullock was saying, which is you have to use the information that you have. And in those situations where you have to make a decision, you have to be committed to that decision. But when information comes around that says, hey, that was the wrong decision, you need to pivot. That's part of being a leader. But it's also creating that safe space for your employees to do the same thing,

Josh Bullock (41:40)
have to be committed to that decision, when information comes around that says, hey, that was the wrong decision, need to pivot. That's part of being a leader, but it's also creating that safe space for your employees to do the same thing.

Christopher Swing (41:55)
You know, I'm a big fan of Mark Kohler's, is he was a submarine captain and

Josh Bullock (41:55)
a big fan of Mark Pollard's, is he's a submarine captain.

They don't always know everything they need to know to make the best decisions. So they make the decision between 40 and 70 percent confidence. That's what they're trained to do. the key to that is if you wait until you're super confident it's too late to make the decision. At that point the decision has been made for you because you

Christopher Swing (42:03)
you know, they don't always know everything they need to know to make the best decision. So they make the decision in between 40 and 70 percent confidence. That's what they're trained to do. And and the key to that is if you wait until you're super confident, it's too late to make the decision already. At that point, the decision has been made for you because you

you have 100 % confidence or really close to 100 % confidence, in which case you are pretty much 100 % confident.

Josh Bullock (42:25)
have 100 percent confidence or really close to 100 percent confidence. In which case you are pretty much 100 percent confident with that.

Christopher Swing (42:32)
That's not how we lead organizations. That's not how we're innovative. That's not how we make a difference. But I do completely agree with you, Josh, and that is that you can't take yourself too seriously. And one of the things that I find, you

Josh Bullock (42:32)
That's not how we lead organizations. That's not how we're innovative. That's not how we make a difference. But I do completely agree with you, Josh, in that it's that you can't take yourself too seriously. And one of the things that I find,

you guys don't know this, but we actually video record these sessions. And I don't look like I'm having that much fun on the camera.

Christopher Swing (42:51)
You guys don't know this, but we actually video record these sessions and I don't look like I'm having that much fun on the camera.

Josh Bullock (43:00)
And I think that's maybe what you were related to earlier. But I have so much joy. I have so much joy for what I do. have so much joy for even this silly process that we do so that when you guys have some idea of what's going on in different leaders' minds and potentially giving the

Christopher Swing (43:01)
And I think that was maybe what you were alluding to earlier. But I have so much joy. I have so much joy for what I do. I have so much joy for even this silly process that we do so that way you guys have some idea of what's going on in different leaders minds and potentially giving.

the average person, right? There's no limitations to knowing how Ann

Josh Bullock (43:20)
average person, right? There's no limitations to knowing how, you know,

Christopher Swing (43:28)
Dator thinks. You can go and Google her name and listen to her podcast. And granted, I may not do that great of a job of getting the best pieces of her out, but that's one of the benefits that we have with podcasts is

Josh Bullock (43:29)
and data or things you can go and Google her name and listen to her podcast. And I agree, I may not do that great of a job of getting the best pieces of her out. But but but that's one of the benefits that we have with podcasts is

you don't have to be someone with statute stature to be able to access Joe D'Azio or Dr. Bullock, you can just come onto the podcast and listen to what what is important to them and you get to have a piece of who they are.

Christopher Swing (43:44)
You don't have to be someone with stature to be able to access Joe Dively or Dr. Bullock. You can just come onto the podcast and listen to what is important to them and you get to have a piece of who they are

even if you don't have that close relationship. And so my hope is that that's valuable for you. It builds you up as a person. And granted, I'm not necessarily interviewing world renowned leaders or anything like that, but I'm picking.

Josh Bullock (43:59)
close relationship. And my hook is that that's valuable for you to build you up as a person. And granted, you know, I'm not necessarily interviewing, you know, world renowned leaders or anything like that, but I'm

amazing people that have amazing stories. And I didn't know that Dr. Bullock's story about his dad is intriguing.

Christopher Swing (44:13)
amazing people that have amazing stories and I didn't know Dr Bullock's story about his dad so intrigued

to go pick up that book and see what that looks like. So looking ahead Dr Bullock, what impact do you hope to have and to leave here at Lakeland College? I mean you mentioned Dr Luther which had significant impact. Amazing impact.

Josh Bullock (44:24)
So looking ahead, Dr. Bullock, what impacts do you hope to have and to leave here at Lakeland College? I mean, you mentioned Dr. Luther, which had significant impacts. Amazing impact.

Christopher Swing (44:40)
And so I just wonder kind of, know, as you think, and I know you're super humble, and so I know this is a challenge to make a statement like this, but that's not what this is about. It's not about touting yourself, but like

Josh Bullock (44:41)
And so I just wonder, as you think, and I know you're super humble, and so I know this is a challenge to make a statement like this, but that's not what this is about. It's not about touting yourself, but like,

Christopher Swing (44:54)
when you think back 20 or 30 years from now, what do you hope people will recognize and see your fingerprint here at Lakeland College? I hope people recognize that

Josh Bullock (45:04)
I hope people recognize that

we as leaders, as a leadership team, have done what we can to ensure that Lakeland College is here providing education, relevant education for the times for those who need it.

I think you're aware, Chris, we worked with our board of trustees on a 10-year master facility and landscaping plan. And that's to ensure all of our facilities are prepared for the next 50 years. We've been around just since 1966, so almost 60 years. And we want to make sure the college is going to be around and able to serve students in the future. And so we're making sure our buildings and grounds are all in shape so that we can do that. And I think that would be the greatest testament as if

Lakeland College continues to thrive and provide the education that's needed by our students, by the businesses who are looking for a skilled workforce, and by our community. I think that would be a testament to saying we did the right things. That we made a difference.

So let me.

Christopher Swing (45:56)
So let me

give you a few things that I think you've done. The signage is beautiful. Thank you. I mean, I don't know who oversaw that. Amazing. I love the sign that's on the interstate. Every time Lisa and I drive by, she's like, Lakeland College. This week, she was actually in Effingham with me. so she saw the sign down there that said Lakeland College. She's like, wait, we're in Effingham.

Josh Bullock (46:02)
Thank you.

I love this song.

And so she saw the sign down there that said, local and college. She's like, wait, we're in Effingham.

And I was like, yeah, they have two buildings. She's like, have two buildings here? So I showed her Clophie, and then we went over and saw your new.

Christopher Swing (46:21)
And was like, yeah, they have two buildings. She's like, they have two buildings here. So, you know, I showed her Cluthy and then we went over and saw your new

building. I don't even know what you call that. Effingham Technology Center. OK, the Effingham Technology Center, which is right, really literally right across the street, almost from my office. so just the other thing is, is the campus just looks a lot different. we had temporary buildings on campus when I was here. Those are gone. This building is beautiful.

Josh Bullock (46:30)
The Effingham Technology Center.

Christopher Swing (46:48)
Like when I pulled up, the visibility from the parking

lot is way different than what I would see. You know, because we had textbook rental right over here. I mean, it was just, it just looks a lot different. We have a couple of new buildings on campus. if that doesn't speak to, who you are and what your team has done here, it's phenomenal. Thank you.

Josh Bullock (46:56)
You know, we have textbook rental right over here. mean, it just looks a lot like that. A couple of new buildings on campus. that doesn't speak

Thank you.

Christopher Swing (47:14)
But anyways, I just wanted to wrap up and just say thank you for taking the time to do this. I know that your time is extremely valuable and these aren't super easy to carve out an hour and a half to do this. But I do think it's extremely valuable for the people that want to grow beyond themselves. And I had the benefit where I was invited to the table.

Josh Bullock (47:39)
from someone who's phenomenal and invested in me and got me to where I'm at today. And the one thing that I always tell everybody is that in the history, I always had crazy opportunities to have what I would consider very contributing roles in organizations. And I never felt like I deserved to be in that.

Christopher Swing (47:40)
from someone who's phenomenal and invested in me and got me to who I am, where I'm at today. And the one thing that I always tell everybody is that in the history, I always had crazy opportunities to have what I would consider very contributing roles in organizations. And I never felt like I deserved any of them.

Josh Bullock (48:05)
So somebody outside saw me

Christopher Swing (48:05)
So somebody outside saw me

Josh Bullock (48:09)
for what they thought I would be. And so my hope is that if nothing else, those of you who are listening.

Christopher Swing (48:09)
for what they thought I would be and they invested in me. so my hope is that if nothing else, those of you who are listening

have the ability to use the information that we're giving you to better yourselves and to prepare yourselves for whatever adventure that you're looking for. And I'm just thankful that Dr. Bullock had the chance and the time to do this. And I look forward to catching up with you all very soon. Take care.

Josh Bullock (48:18)
have the ability to use the information that we're giving you to better yourselves and to prepare yourselves for whatever adventure that you're looking for. And I'm just thankful that Dr. Bollock had the chance and the time to do this. And I look forward to catching up with you all very soon. Take care.