Faithful

Learning from Experience: The Good and the Bad with Joe Dively

• Season 1 • Episode 12

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Summary

In this conversation, Joe shares his journey from college to becoming the CEO of a publicly traded company. He discusses the importance of confidence, leadership skills, and the balance between doing your job well and seeking advancement. Joe reflects on his experiences at Caterpillar and IBM, emphasizing the lessons learned from both good and bad leaders. He highlights the value of failure in shaping his career and the importance of seizing opportunities, even when feeling unprepared. The discussion also touches on the transition from telecom to banking, navigating challenges, and the critical balance between strategy and opportunism. Joe shares valuable mentorship lessons and the influence of faith and values in his career decisions. In this conversation, Christopher Swing reflects on the foundational values instilled in him by his family, the importance of navigating career uncertainties, and how his definition of success has evolved over time. He shares advice for young professionals, emphasizing the significance of effort and attitude, and discusses the future of leadership and business, particularly in relation to community involvement and mentoring future leaders. Throughout, he highlights the reciprocal nature of giving back to the community and the personal growth that comes from such involvement.

Takeaways

Confidence is built through upbringing and expectations.
Effective leaders possess strong interpersonal and communication skills.
Doing your job well creates opportunities for advancement.
Avoid keeping score of promotions; focus on performance.
Coaching is essential for addressing team detractors.
Learning from both good and bad leadership experiences is crucial.
Failure often teaches more than success.
Seizing opportunities can lead to unexpected leadership roles.
Strategy is important, but flexibility is key to success.
Faith and values play a significant role in career decisions. Luck started July 23rd, 1959 for me.
Values that are directly attributable or define how you behave.
I found that I stuck to what I was doing.
Greatness from a leadership standpoint is achieved through others.
Pedigree doesn't mean much.
Effort and attitude are key qualities.
We need to embrace institutional investors.
I want to be remembered as authentic.
I always got more than what I gave.
I appreciate your passion for Eastern as well.

Sound Bites

"Put your head down and do your job."
"Strategy is critical."
"We'll make it right."
"Faith was the center of our family."
"Pedigree doesn't m

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Christopher Swing (00:00)
Welcome to Faithful, the podcast where we explore the intersection of leadership, faith, and impact. I'm your host, Christopher Swing, president and CEO of Vantage Surgical Solutions. Through thoughtful conversations with business leaders, missionaries, and change makers, we uncover the principles that guide their work and connect them to timeless wisdom. In season one, we're diving into the foundational organizations and experiences that shape my own leadership journey. Whether you're a leader in business,

faith or your community, this conversation is packed with inspiration and practical wisdom. Thank you for joining me on this journey of discovering how faith and leadership intersect in meaningful ways. Let's dive into the episode.

Christopher Swing (00:44)
Welcome back to Faithful. It's a great day. I'm here with Joe Dively. And part of the thing that brought me to Joe is, first of all, we have an extensive relationship through our connections at Eastern. Joe is a former Alumni Association president. He, unlike me, became the board of trustees at Eastern and has served now a second time, I think, on the foundation. And probably what's more intriguing about

Joe than anything else is the multiple industries that Joe's operated within. so I think so often you guys struggle finding ways to up yourself and up your game. And I think it's sometimes a self limitation that you guys have visualizing that you need to be in the industry that you're in. And I'll just.

You know, I've told you guys multiple times that I don't believe in that. As a matter of fact, I believe that the more industries that I've been in, the better I've become a manager, the more I understand the economics on how different businesses and organizations work together. mean, you know, we're both touching the banking industry and, who would have thought years ago that

hotels and restaurants would have really struggled. And at the same time, McDonald's are just killing it. And so just the, you know, understanding how all that stuff works just makes you a better leader and a more rounded leader. In my opinion, prepares you on the risk management side, especially being able to really understand, there's a lot of things that can happen. And after COVID, now we know that there's a lot of things we never anticipated being able to happen that that did. And so

I'm just glad to have Joe here with me today. And so thanks. Thanks for taking the time. So we also figured out that we have some interconnectedness because Joe's mom used to be one of my substitute teachers when I was in high school. And, I just remember like to a T walking in and just the joy that we would all feel when, when we saw, Mrs. Dively in her seat.

And just the jovial nature of her and the experience. I was telling Joe just a minute ago that, you know, the biggest frustration that we created was a lot of times four of us would sit down to play yukuri and she's like, who brought the cards? Like, where's my seat? And so just had a real joy experiencing her. And I didn't even know that that was your mom until I was doing the research to prepare to come in here today.

So one of the things that I want to talk about is I really want to get into this multiple industry thing, because I think you're a perfect example. You you started at Caterpillar, then you moved on to IBM, if I remember right. Then you went to Boston and some real estate. Then you came back into Consolidated. Then you moved into First Mid. And so along the way, you've got, you know, critical infrastructure. You've got real estate. You've got, telecom, banking, all kinds of different things.

Christopher Swing (04:03)
So Joe, when you graduated college, you ever imagined one day you'd be the CEO of a publicly traded company? Sure.

Joe Dively (04:03)
So Joe, when you graduated college, you ever imagine one thing in the CEO of a publicly traded company? Short answer,

no. I certainly didn't envision it back there then. But I did have a lot of confidence. My wife was a

says, how did you get so much confidence? I give all that credit to my mom and dad, just how we were raised and their confidence in us and high expectations. would say I felt that someday I was going to be in a position to lead and have a leadership role. CEO, not necessarily a public company, definitely not thinking about that. But I

know, my interpersonal skills and communication skills are probably, I don't have a lot of strengths, but that'd be one of them. and just, especially as I went through my career, you see people who are the most effective leaders, they, have that at their core, most of them do. So I had confidence I was going to have opportunities as, my career progressed. So how do you balance

Christopher Swing (05:08)
So how do you balance

that ability in your early career? Because I also felt like I had that opportunity. how do you balance that though, where you don't lose those opportunities later on? you have to still be part of the team. Exactly. That's where I was going to go, Chris. I I look back on that. And even when I talk to, you know, I speak to all of our

Joe Dively (05:21)
do balance that though where you don't lose those opportunities right now? Because you have to still be part of the team. Exactly. That's where I was going to

to, you I speak to all of our new

hire, we have new hire orientation every month and zoom people in from across our footprint. And, inevitably, I asked for questions, hey, what's on your mind? And people seems like half the time, someone say, well, how do you, how do you get ahead? How do you distinguish yourself? And, and to me, the advice is put your put your head down and do your job and do it extremely well.

And there's probably times where your head's up and you're looking, what's the next move? Or you're getting antsy. Or you see a peer get promoted and we sometimes make the mistake of keeping score in the short term, inning by inning. And I just think looking back, and for our team members who succeed, they just dig in and

and do an exceptional job. I just think, if you're working for the right company, your leadership, your manager will notice. And it's going to create opportunities. And so I just think that's the biggest thing is just do your current job extremely well. And work well with others and all those other things. But don't be...

too focused on, what's that next thing? Because you just got to trust it'll come. So one of the things that you said before.

Christopher Swing (06:48)
So one of the things that you said before

is that you want people who are engaged in being part of the team and actively participate, but you don't want detractors within the team.

Joe Dively (06:54)
is that you want people who are engaged in being part of the team and actively participate, but you don't want detractors within the team.

I think we as a bank have gotten better about defining. That person could be an

a great individual contributor. And I mean, we ought to give them coaching about what we're seeing and, hey, this is detrimental to the team and be explicit about that. But ultimately, they're going to take themselves out of a leadership role, maybe put their career at risk if it's really disruptive. I think coaching people directly on

desired behaviors and what's acceptable and what's not. But to me, shame on us, shame on any company that's gonna promote somebody who maybe is stepping on team members back to get recognition, to show them disruptive. It's one thing to be a contrarian and having a different view and having the confidence to...

take that position and explain why or where there may be a better way to do things, a better process. Hey, I'm all for that, but it doesn't have to be confrontational. And as long as it's coming from the right place, that this is about making us better, serving the customers better, making us more efficient rather than trying to grandstand or steal the...

the spotlight just for credit's sake.

Christopher Swing (08:19)
Yeah, I completely agree. So looking back at your experiences in CAT and IBM, big companies with tons of resources and amazing leaders, know, what experiences did you have that shaped your leadership today?

Joe Dively (08:19)
Yeah, I completely agree. looking back at your experiences in CAT and IBM, big companies with tons of resources and amazing leaders, what experiences did you have that shaped your leadership today? You know, I think

about that, Chris, and I think that that

we can be developed and shaped and our leadership style can be defined by both good and bad experiences over the years. Gosh, at this stage of my career, had, I gotta, I should go back and count them all up. How many bosses I've had, I've been blessed. I immediately too come to mind that weren't good leaders and, we're,

terribly ineffective in the way they managed the team, the way they tried to build consensus and a shared vision. One was kind of a bully. And I just look back on that in both those organizations. One was consolidated and one was at IBM. And ultimately, the company will notice if you're working for the right company. Ultimately, it was recognized that they weren't

providing the kind of leadership that least worked in those two organizations. So you can learn from both. And yet, these days are over. But, my caterpillar right out of college, I mean, two weeks after I graduated, we got married two weeks later, I started at CAT and went into a nine month training program. And I look back on that. Every presentation we made was videotaped. had oral exams, written exams. It was a very structured

program. Certainly part of that was learning the Caterpillar, product line features and benefits and what made CAT different, which was great. But there was just a lot of foundational things that were just right on the heels of coming out of college where you're getting a book learning. then it was much more about how you can apply that. you know, my IBM, you know, I had two weeks sales skills, you know, and I'm still using those sales skills today. I'm still a salesman.

internally and externally, you as a public company and trying to convince other banks to pick us as their strategic partner. you know, I just, we just got just incredibly great foundational training that still using what I learned there today.

Christopher Swing (10:35)
So I don't want to get too far off course, but don't you think the lessons from failure is so much more obvious than the lessons from success?

Joe Dively (10:35)
So I don't want to get too far off course. Don't you think the lessons from failure is so much more obvious than the lessons from Oh, I agree. You know, when

I left Caterpillar and went to IBM, and I'd never sold, I didn't know anything about voice or data. That was the product set that I was working on. And I was on a team. And I do think about my sales manager who

who took a bet on this guy from Caterpillar. He's on my Mount Rushmore of mentors that I've had. But when you're struggling and trying to build a pipeline, get points on the board, you see others, maybe success came too quick for them. They sold a couple big systems, were on the top of the leaderboard. And yet, in some ways, I look back, my

I went six months without selling anything. It was a scary time. You know, am I going to succeed here? Did I make the right decision? But I think it just kept me motivated to keep building a pipeline, keep cold calling, and keep learning how to close and do needs analysis, all those things. I don't know if I was great. I certainly wasn't grateful at the time that success came slow.

compared to, I saw some really quick high flyers that maybe then lost their diligence and commitment to the grind of what it takes to be successful in sales. I don't know, I learned from that failure, I guess, is there's no other ways to characterize it. But again, I had a great mentor that said, you're doing all the right things. He went on calls with me, refined my

sales presentation skills and really invested in me and just did just encourage me to keep doing what I was doing and have confidence that success would come. And I'm very grateful to Mike Farmer, who knows how important he was in my career. Yeah, I mean, we all have experienced salespeople who get

Christopher Swing (12:31)
Yeah, I mean, we all have experienced salespeople who get lucky.

Joe Dively (12:35)
Yeah. They go out. Yeah. Hit a home run right out of the gate. Yeah.

Christopher Swing (12:36)
go out. They go. Yeah, they. Yeah, exactly. Like, you know, I go back to my GM training program at United graphics and I did the same thing and I don't. I mean, obviously I did the things, leading indicators, you know, go out, trudge, you know, do the work over and over again. And I was dealing with people going. We're a printing company. Why would we use you?

Joe Dively (12:45)
I mean, obviously I did the things, the leading indicators, know, go out, trudge, know, do the Right, grind. Over and over again. And I was dealing with people going, we're printing company, why would we use you?

And eventually somebody figured it out. And it's amazing. But at the same time... I got energy from, as silly as it sounds, when someone would say no to me.

Christopher Swing (13:00)
eventually somebody figured it out and it's amazing but you know at the same time.

Joe Dively (13:14)
We did a lot of cold calling over the phone and I just knew it was a numbers game. so, hey, I'd rather get to a no, a hard no and move on to the next call. Because when that person goes, you know what, we are interested in a new telecom system. Let's set an appointment. That was a win. That's the start. You don't get to a close without that. That yes, you know, throughout the whole sales process. But, again, I don't know what that that's if that was inherent in me, I was

fearful of failure, have a baby coming by that time in our life. I I was motivated. And so don't let, don't let no, deter you or bring you down. Just, just keep grinding.

So we've talked about your extensive steps through multiple industries. One of the things that I've always felt about my career was that I constantly was given opportunities before I was ready. Did you have opportunities to be a leader of any level before you felt like you were ready for a role?

Christopher Swing (13:57)
So we've talked about your extensive steps through multiple industries. One of the things that I've always felt about my career was that I constantly was given opportunities before I was ready. Did you have opportunities to be a leader of any level before you felt like you were ready for a role?

Well, I never said no to an

Joe Dively (14:20)
Well, I never said no to an opportunity,

Christopher Swing (14:21)
It was internal promotion because I trusted the people who knew me and if they had confidence in me, I felt confidence that, I can do this job. the one position as we were living in Boston with two little kids and decided to move back, started a conversation with Consolidated here in that time.

Joe Dively (14:22)
you if it was internal promotion, because I trusted the people who who knew me. And if they had confidence in me, I it built confidence that I can do this job. one one position as we were living in Boston with two little kids and decided to move back, a conversation with Consolidate here in Mattoon at the time really had no desire to

moved back to our hometown, but really was intrigued by the culture and the leadership and at 31 was offered to run one of their business units. was a call center business and the Consolidated started and the current president of that group was going to step down to lead sales and I was coming in and he was gonna stay.

So not only did I not know the industry, at that time didn't know the consolidated leadership, it was my first job with them. So it seemed like a big step. so that was probably the one time where I was asked to take something on where I thought, hey, am I ready for this? was kind of scary time.

Ultimately it worked out. It came into a really good team of professionals that knew what they were doing and didn't let me screw it up. grateful it worked out.

So what led you from telecom to banking? Well, hey, one of the greatest gifts in my life was the opportunity to meet and work with and for Dick Lumpkin. know, Dick, just a remarkable man.

Christopher Swing (15:41)
So what led you from telecom into banking? Well, hey, one of

Joe Dively (15:55)
what he built and consolidated, what he did in our region here, and a host of different things with Eastern and helping create Sarah Bush, those kinds of things. He was a role model in every way. But his family was also the largest shareholder of FirstNet. And we have a mandatory retirement from the board at 70. You can't stand for reelection at 70. So he just asked me to come on the board behind him.

And so I joined the board as an independent director back in 2004, never thinking that that might turn into something from a career perspective. I just came here as an independent director and excited to learn banking. then over time, after seven years, I was asked to join the executive team. So it wasn't with intent that I started my relationship.

with First Mid, you know, at the time, they're just a group of, of community directors that I really admired. they were, that kind of next generation above me and people who had really made a difference in the community with their businesses and their community service. So to be asked just to join the board was, a great day. Yeah. I know a lot of those people. It was an amazing group. It was a great group. Great, great group. Learned a lot from them.

Christopher Swing (17:08)
Yeah, and I know a lot of those people and it was an amazing group at the time. Great group, learned a lot from them.

Joe Dively (17:15)
And it was for my own personal development to, you one of

Christopher Swing (17:17)
it was for my own personal development.

Joe Dively (17:21)
the things I, I never loved accounting at Eastern. got it in full disclosure, got a C in cost accounting, just didn't like it. Ultimately had a son who became a CPA. So, but, you know, never thought I would, I just didn't think it was important, you know, and, and yet again at 31 running a business with a

P &L and a balance sheet. then coming to the bank, really did hone my skills from a financial perspective. So very grateful that I had seven years on the board before I joined the executive team.

Christopher Swing (17:54)
So looking back, were there key moments in your leadership journey that kind of shaped who you are as a leader?

Joe Dively (17:54)
So looking back, were there key moments in your leadership journey that kind of shaped who you are as

probably the most stressful, challenging time, that comes to mind in 1997. Father's Day, 1997, we were called into this building, it was at the time, consolidated, what is now our corporate offices, and we have an auditorium downstairs.

and was told Consolidate was going to sell to a company called McCloud USA. They were a competitor of ours. I was leading sales and marketing at the time and we were duking it out with them in Decatur Champagne in Peoria and frankly didn't really admire them a great deal. like their sales tactics but know Dick and the board felt it was the right thing to do because it was kind of a very disruptive time in telecom.

I think I can adapt pretty well to change. But that was a really difficult time to embrace it. I had to get in the car and go the next morning, be in front of our Indianapolis team and tell them about this and put on a good face. Act like this was something that was going to be good. And I really didn't know. And I had a lot of anxiety. You know, at that stage, our kids were

you know, at an age we just didn't want to move by that time. Our roots were so deep, coming back to our hometown that, that, Hey, I never been afraid that I'm not going to be able to adapt and, get a position and pay the bills and those kinds of things. But at that point in our life, we really didn't want to move. So it was tighten the chin strap and, embrace this thing.

And, in, in, in, honestly, it ended up working out ultimately, you know, Dick ended up buying the company back five years later, but that was a really challenging time to ultimately, I ended up having half for the first couple of years, half the sales team, four different States that I was leading. And, and frankly, took a while to feel connected to the mission and the team and their

strategy and approach. So it was challenging to be authentic and genuine and to truly buy in. Ultimately, it worked out. the Consolidate was reconstituted in a much better way five years later. But it was a real challenge, especially those first six months. Sounds crazy. It was crazy.

Christopher Swing (20:20)
Sounds crazy.

Joe Dively (20:23)
So how much of your success do you attribute to strategy and planning versus seizing opportunities? And maybe this is where you talk a little bit about the luck aspect too. Yeah.

Christopher Swing (20:23)
So how much of your success do you attribute to strategy and planning versus seizing opportunities? And maybe this is where you talk a little bit about the luck aspect too. Yeah.

Joe Dively (20:35)
Well, from a corporate standpoint, I believe strategy is critical. I mean, it forces us to get in a room and really debate. know, we have a strategic plan. I think it's my fourth strategic plan since I've

you know, been a CEO that's refreshed, we adopt a new strategic plan every three years, obviously not major variances, you know, plan to plan, but it really sets our direction and where we're going to invest our time and our money. And so we report to the board quarterly on our five strategic priorities. What are all the other objectives underneath that? Refresh it annually and

I think there's real value to make sure we're all on the same page, not only the executive team, but the board. And it lays those priorities and expectations that the board should hold the management team accountable to. So I believe in strategy, no doubt about that. But I also think you need to be opportunistic. There's been things that have presented themselves.

my time at first mid, whether it's a joint venture or a new business line, expanding our footprint through an acquisition, that I think you need to be open to that, not be rigid and too bound by that plan because, you know, there may be an opportunity that could really move the organization forward, lessen risk, present greater growth. So I think

There's a balance between that and I believe in.

Christopher Swing (22:04)
Makes sense. When you think about those who invested in you and your career, what are some of the leadership lessons that come to mind from those people? Well,

Joe Dively (22:04)
When you think about those who invested in you and your career, what are some of the leadership lessons that come to mind from those?

Well, you

know, maybe just going back to talking about my time at McLeod and tying this to Dick Lumpkin, who was just a wonderful mentor. And Bob Curry was our CEO for those that first tour of Consolidated. When Dick bought the company back. He knew it had been a very difficult time for the for those five years, and he said we had a.

a great celebration. were seven different bidders that could have bought us. Couple probably could have been OK. Four would have been a disaster. One we all wanted, which was to be back working with and for Dick. But he'd always say when we're in a service organization, there's times where we fail a customer. And his motto was, we'll make it right.

And I, and then the day that we announced that he was the winning bidder of consolidated from a cloud, one of his first comments was, I felt an obligation to make it right, and it just, that's who he was. And I just think that's, that applies in so many different ways, not just in a customer situation, at his age, gosh, I don't know how old Dick was at the time, but it would have been so easy for him.

take money off the table, maybe regret that he sold the company and it didn't work out the way he had hoped with all the right intentions up front. But when he saw how negatively it impacted the organization and our customers' communities, and he had the opportunity to buy it back, he went out and got two private equity sponsors and made the most aggressive bid. And it was, again, with this thought that

hey, I'm gonna make this right. Or at least take a shot at making it right. And he did. Very grateful. You that's always interesting because when somebody says it, right, and especially at his age, like, he was putting a lot at risk to try to actually have an impact. You know, by that time in his life, he had built a home.

Christopher Swing (24:01)
You know, that's always interesting because when somebody says it, right, and especially at his advanced age, like he was putting a lot at risk to try to actually have an impact there.

Joe Dively (24:20)
in California and start a winery out there, it would have been so easy for him to walk away and extract himself out of the situation. But hey, he he put a team back together and and double down. I mean, we ultimately did an acquisition of a telecom unit down in Houston that was three times our size. So put a lot at risk. And it gave us enough scale to become a real public company to do an IPO. And so

It wasn't like, it was a big decision for him. and, uh, sadly we've lost Dick, but I know he never regretted it for a second. It was, was the right thing to do on so many levels. And thankfully it ended up being positive, I think ultimately. It did. Oh no, it didn't. It ended up being very, very positive and, and,

Christopher Swing (25:02)
And thankfully it ended up being positive, think, ultimately for him. It did. no, did. I mean, it was very. being very, very positive. And, and,

and yet you can't discount. mean, always, always in hindsight, it looks like, well, hey, yeah, you he made a lot of money or he achieved his objectives, you know, whatever those, however that may look, looking back, but at the time it was a big bet. I mean, he'd never.

Joe Dively (25:13)
And yet you can't discount. mean, always, always in hindsight, it looks like, well, hey, yeah, you he made a lot of money or he achieved his objectives, you know, whatever those however that may look looking back. at the time, it was a big bet. I mean, he'd never

worked directly with private equity, put a team together. We ultimately went public and all the good and the bad that comes from that. there was a lot of risk and not a lot of experience in that.

Christopher Swing (25:30)
directly with private equity, put a team together, ultimately went public and all the good and the bad that comes from that. there was a lot of risk and not a lot of experience in that at

the time. Looking back, clearly it was a good one on multiple levels, but if you look back on it, it was a big swing.

Joe Dively (25:41)
You know, looking back, clearly it was a good one on multiple levels, but if you look back on it, it was a big swing.

Christopher Swing (25:51)
I just don't want to lose the perspective that he did it to make it right. Just to make it right. We'll make it right. You know, and I'd heard him say it so many different times.

Joe Dively (25:51)
I just don't want to lose the perspective that he did it to make it right. Just to make it right. We'll make it right. You know, and I'd heard him say it so many different times if, again, we'd fallen short in...

in one way or another. And some of it applied to employees or customers, the community. And to hear him say that in the context of buying the company back, it just doesn't get any bigger than that. But again, just very consistent with the way he saw the world and his role of being a leader. was impactful. Yeah, I I really appreciate people that

Christopher Swing (26:24)
Yeah, I mean, I really appreciate people that

do that. And I'm sure thankful that that worked out well for him and his family. So this is kind of an interesting segue into, how has faith or values influenced the way you approach your career decisions, especially those big and uncertain moments?

Joe Dively (26:28)
do that and I'm sure thankful that that worked out well for Henry's family. It really did. So this is kind of an interesting segue into how has faith or values influenced the way you approach your career decisions, especially those big and uncertain ones?

The greatest role model I had around faith was my mom. She was just a deeply devout woman, but I don't mean that in a stodgy, rigid way. I mean, she was incredibly fun-loving, but at her heart, her faith was the center of that, but treating people the right way. I mean, she loved everybody.

least judgmental. Now there are times she judged me as a child, partially appropriately. I mean, seriously, the you she was a schoolteacher. Her kids loved her because they knew she loved them and expected their best. But, you know, faith was the center of our family. She didn't wear it on her sleeve, but it really impacted

all four of our kids and the way they were raised and the values that were really non-negotiable for us and how we treated people and expectation to give back, be involved in the community. my father was a wonderful role model in that regard. So, you you talk about luck. Hey, luck started July 23rd, 1959 for me to be born.

to John and Joyce Dively. mean, that to me defined who I am, values that are directly attributable or define how you behave at work. It's not like you have a different set of values at home, at work, in the community. They are just foundational. so those core values that

have defined me or are the things that attracted me to certain companies and to certain people to work with and for I think are really consistent.

Christopher Swing (28:27)
And I didn't have the pleasure of knowing your dad, but I know your mom and I can tell you that everybody that came into contact with her enjoyed her early. She was fantastic. You know, one of the great things of moving back home.

Joe Dively (28:27)
And I didn't have the pleasure of knowing your dad.

She is great. She was fantastic. You know, one of the great things of moving back home from

Boston was, you know, and we didn't, you we knew we wanted to be closer to family. We want to live in the same town, come back to our hometown. But one of the great, the greatest part of that decision, now looking back on it, that both our kids have deep, just such positive, loving memories, relationships.

with all four of their grandparents that were here. And yet they really had a special bond with my mom and dad. It's just very cool looking back on that. And at the time, because we'd always lived away, we just didn't realize what it could be if we were nearby and had them in our lives. So they were special. And Dad was a principal here in Charleston for, gosh, 30 years.

I've had so many people come up and say back in the good old days, he paddled them. So he was more of a tough love kind of guy. He probably wouldn't work in today's educational system, but very, very proud. Proud of both my parents.

Christopher Swing (29:42)
So were there ever times where you questioned whether you were on the right path and how did you figure that out? You know, because I just think about there's a whole lot of people out there, right, that are sitting in a job going, I'm not sure if this is right for me. I think so much bigger of myself. I go back to my career and there were a lot of times where I feel like I'm not really getting challenged here, but I found that...

Joe Dively (29:42)
So are there ever times where you question whether you...

figure that out? know, because I just think about there's a whole lot of people out there, right, that are sitting in a job going, I'm not sure if this is right for me. think so much bigger of myself. I go back to my career and there are

challenge here. But I found that

I stuck to what I was doing. I worked really hard. I tried to be recognized for having amazing skills and leading even when I'm not in charge. And, you know, that did a lot for my career. I don't know. There's a balance there. I think, you know, it seems like the younger generation now will move very quickly. And and I think there's something to

Christopher Swing (30:06)
I stuck to what I was doing. I worked really hard. I tried to be recognized for having amazing skills and leading even when I'm not in charge. And, you know, that did a lot for my career. I just didn't know what your friends were doing.

Joe Dively (30:31)
not only what it looks like on a resume if you're moving every year or two, that at some point creates questions in my mind, back to grinding and hanging in there. I think if you're feeling unfulfilled, man, the people who lead in our world, I hope they would embrace somebody who raises their hand and says, I can do more. How can I help? You know, in our world, we've been doing an acquisition about once a year.

And so that creates this huge workload for a lot of our departments that's on top of everything else they're doing. it just creates those moments, those opportunities create a chance to distinguish yourself. so when I think back to your question about was there a time that I was uncertain, am I doing the right thing, it was definitely.

the decision to go to Boston. There was an opportunity to create significant wealth in a short period of time. We went there for money. that's why, by that time, I was a sales manager at IBM doing well, had a good team. We were making good money. But this was something different on a different level. And again, you can learn from good and bad. We talked about that earlier.

I went there and immediately realized this is an unhealthy culture, unreasonable demands. had a 630 meeting, lots of times six days a week. It was just a grind. After a couple years, I an opportunity to get promoted towards becoming a partner on my next project, but it required us to move to Syracuse from Boston. And at that point...

It just created a great kind of fork in the road for Sheila and I to say, hey, what's important to us? And what are we doing this for? I almost put her in a single parent situation because I was working so much. And even if somebody had put that big check in an escrow account, I could get that guaranteed, just grind it out for three more years. Hey, by that time Jake was going to be eight and I'd miss so much.

so not a great experience, but I know I wouldn't be where I am right now. If I hadn't then said, Hey, we need to be back closer to family started the conversation with consolidated that led to the job at first mid. So, it definitely, the Boston two years helped us define what was most important to our family. And, it was a big part of without that.

Not so great experience wouldn't be where I am today. You let me write to my next. Also, as you've grown into executive leadership, has your definition of success changed? definitely. You know, you know, probably to be honest, even when I was a young sales manager, had sales reps working for me. It was still probably more about me.

Christopher Swing (33:01)
You led me right to my next question. As you've grown into executive leadership, has your definition of success changed? definitely.

Joe Dively (33:20)
Hey, I wanted to help my team. I wanted to recruit the right people. I wanted to go on sales calls with them so that I would be successful. And I think at some point that kind of flips. I do believe greatness from a leadership standpoint is achieved through the agency of others. And at some point, you realize this is more about mentoring and giving back and helping others.

succeed. I don't know where that where I flip, flip that probably for a long time, there was dual purpose. And I'd probably be lying if there still isn't a part of, hey, when we have a good quarter, I'm proud of it. There's a personal side of that. We when we when we exceed our, our corporate goals for a year or have a successful acquisition. I mean, there's there's a personal satisfaction. But but much, much more of the focus now, especially at this

stage of my career. I'm certainly in the back half of this round. And so as I think about that, my legacy needs to be more about the team and that they work well together and that we bring in and develop from within the ranks folks who are ready to take first mid to the next level way beyond what I can do in my leadership.

Christopher Swing (34:36)
If you could go back to a younger version of yourself, I think about Caterpillar because that was when you came right out of school. Maybe it's another, what advice would you give yourself?

Joe Dively (34:36)
If you could go back to a younger version of yourself, you know, I think about catapulting, because that's when you came right out of school. it's another, you know, what advice would you give yourself? You know, we're both proud Eastern

grads. And and I there was probably a time I don't know if this is, you know, something that could have vaulted me or anything. But when I look back on it, you know, I that training program, I went into it. It can't they were all.

Big 10, half the class were engineers, 25 % were MBAs, and here I am with a marketing degree from EIU. And there was probably, and probably part of that is because I was a townie, and I went to school in town, worked my way through school. There probably was just a little bit of insecurity around that pedigree. And I look back on it now. I am just so proud, one, that Eastern prepared me extremely well to go compete with folks coming from these

you higher profile schools maybe more prestigious so I it's just reinforced what a great job Eastern did for me preparing me to go out and work and and pedigree doesn't mean much it helped me you know I know I seldom ask or care where somebody went to school you know when I went whether it's even if it's an entry-level position I want to know more about what they did while they were in school.

Not necessarily even GPA. What are the other things that they did to demonstrate leadership going above and beyond and and characteristics we look for? But you know, there are probably should have whispered in my ear. Hey, just relax on that. You've got the job. You have nothing to prove. You're ready for this. Go go get him and don't let that be a distraction. I think that's really good advice. I mean, just.

Christopher Swing (36:21)
I think that's really good advice. I mean, uh,

Joe Dively (36:26)
Hey, we went to Eastern, three of us killed, three of us were, brother and sister were all in school together. There was no option. You're going to school at Eastern. And again, working two jobs, 30 hours a week, which was probably

Christopher Swing (36:26)
we went to Eastern, three of us kids, three of us or two brother and sister were all in school together. There was no option. You're going to school at Eastern and again, working two jobs, 30 hours a week, which is probably

Joe Dively (36:39)
very, very good for me to keep me out of trouble. I still had the full college experience, joined a fraternity and all those things, but hey, wherever you go, whatever, wherever that leads you, I mean,

For lot of people going to a community college is a great, very affordable two-year way to get those pre-reqs out of the way, but it's more about getting your foot in the door and making the most of it. Very little to do with where you went to school.

Christopher Swing (37:08)
What qualities do you think young professionals need today to build a meaningful and successful career?

Joe Dively (37:08)
What qualities do you think young professionals need today to build a meaningful and successful

Well, I say this, you know, again,

I get asked that at our new higher orientation. What are those things? And to me, and it's just so simple and maybe I'm not very deep, but I think it's effort and attitude. I mean, if you've gone through, a degree, demonstrated skills, you know, I got to believe you have half a brain and you don't have to be the very smartest person. I know I'm not.

But just just true effort and have a great attitude there were anywhere you work even in the best of Cultures, there's gonna be people whether there it's change Leadership, whatever it might be that want to focus on the negative and love to chirp about that and and bring people down where you can worst case ignore it best case rise above that

Keep a good attitude. Now it has to be genuine. I you can't fake it forever. And that's hard to do. Change is hard for most of us. And so maybe initial reaction could be negative. But I would just say push yourself not to let it. Be that person that brings others up. Hey, we can do this, whatever it is to rally the troops and turn whatever may be seen as a negative into a positive.

and trust the organization will see that. They'll notice it. Again, it's gotta be genuine. Can't be fake. Can't be short lived. But if that's your personality, have a great work ethic, raise your hand to do more if you have the capacity for that, and just have a good attitude. People will notice, and you're gonna get opportunities as a result.

Christopher Swing (38:53)
What's next for you? What excites you the most about the future of leadership and business?

Joe Dively (38:53)
What's next for you? What excites you the most about the future of leadership and business? Yeah, you know, that's

a great question. I'm really proud of what we've done in my time here as a CEO. We've gone from 1.6 billion asset size as a bank to 7 and 1 half. That's been done with our team.

I continue to focus on the team. We continue to refine it a lot. We have people on our what we call our executive committee, probably the top 12 people in the organization. Some of them, this was their first job out of school and they've just risen to an executive EP level. Some have been strategic hires and.

And yet I am really, really focused. What drove me to walk down the street, to cut my commute by a block and a half, going from consolidated to first mid, is we're celebrating our 160th anniversary. We're the oldest national bank in the state of Illinois. I'm very, very proud of that heritage. And it was my strong desire in coming here that this is going to be a sustainable organization. I feel...

passionately about what community banks and our wealth group and our insurance team can do for a community. But to have it headquartered here, to have that legacy, and to make sure when I walk away, we're stronger, we have a stronger team, we're more diverse in our revenue streams and geography, and that, there's no reason we can't do this for another 160 years. That's really what drives me.

now as I think about this last few years that I have to play a role at first mid. And I think that's motivating for our team that they know we want to in our vision state, we want to earn our independence. We're a real public company. We're accountable to institutional investors, the market. We have seven analysts that cover us. So we get 28.

report cards a year, very public on how we're performing against our strategy and our peers. And there's nothing that ensures our future.

more than just performing. And I think our team understands that, is committed to it, and I'm confident we'll continue to be independent. So I know the last time we talked, you had mentioned that you had this vision that you guys needed to become public to ensure the longevity and the success of the bank. I mean, I don't want to be the crazy person in the room, but you're not the technical banker.

Christopher Swing (41:17)
So I know the last time we talked, you had mentioned that you had this vision that you guys needed to become public to ensure the longevity and the success of the bank. I mean, I don't want to be the crazy person in the room, but you're not the technical banker.

You're the sales guy. always say, but you know, I think that that's, know,

Joe Dively (41:35)
No, I'm not. I always say, but you know, I think that that's, know,

going back to the to our board, I it just shocked me when they asked me to come become president and then then step into the CEO chair role. I think that's more of a compliment to our team. We had a great team. They were great bankers. had great technical skills. But but I think that we didn't have this vision that we need to grow. We have to grow. We got to get build scale.

You know, we have competition coming at us and it's even more accelerated now, whether it's wealth management, insurance, banking, competition coming from all over. And our customers' expectations are so different than walking into a branch. And so we've got to invest in systems and applications. They can do their banking or take care of their needs online if that's what they choose to do. So scale was critical.

And the only way we're going to do that in my mind, you know, is using our stock as a currency for acquisitions. So we were a public company, but we were trading two, 300 shares a day. We needed to create liquidity in our stock. The great, beautiful thing was we had a lot of committed investors here locally, but we needed to embrace institutional investors. And that's kind of scary for our board. So my first board meeting is

As chair, we made that decision to list on the NASDAQ to get ready to go out and tell our story when we had an acquisition or a capital event that required a capital raise. And I think that's when we all bought into the only way to really protect ourselves is not to insulate ourselves from outside investment, it's to perform. And God, we had no reason to believe we couldn't.

with the team that we have and we're far more secure today. So that's a big decision. Yeah, I I give you a lot of credit for it, but I think you're right. So often we confuse this idea of self-preservation as we want to control our stock. We want to have control over who owns us. The reality is that if you perform, cares about you. No, no. And, you know, I think there's just a fear the tail could wag the dog.

Christopher Swing (43:23)
Yeah, I I give you a lot of credit for it, but I think you're right. So often we confuse this idea of self preservation as we want to control our stock. want to have control over who owns us. The reality is, is that if you perform, nobody cares who owns you.

Joe Dively (43:45)
We had zero institutional investment at the time. And today, it's only 40 % of our shares are owned by institutions. And again, they're a critical part to our growth. we need capital, because we're going to do a big acquisition, to be able to have a group of investors and analysts who know us, that we can go to the market, they have confidence that we do what we say we're going to do. We're a strong performer. We're recognized for that.

That's part of the fuel that allows us to grow. there's no hiding though as a public company. But we shouldn't fear that. We should embrace it. So when it's all said and done, what do you want to be remembered for? That's such a hard one. I know I'm getting old if you're asking me questions like that. But I think this is true of everybody.

Christopher Swing (44:27)
So when it's all said and done, what do you want to be remembered for? That's such a hard one. I know I'm getting old if you're asking me. That's not what I'm asking. No, no, no. But I think this is true of everybody. Like

even myself, like I have things that, you know, I constantly judge myself more than I think others judge me. And there's times where I'm like, man, that isn't how you should behave.

Joe Dively (44:41)
Even myself, like I have things that, you know, I constantly judge myself more than I think others do. Right. And there's times where I'm like, man, that isn't that isn't how you should. Yeah. So I don't know. How do I

I've had people say, hey, he's very authentic. And to me, that's the greatest compliment. Hey, I'm still John and Joyce Dively's son.

Christopher Swing (44:57)
had people say,

Joe Dively (45:06)
born and raised in Charleston. And, and I just am who I am. And I guess I've gotten comfortable with that. I don't need to play a different role, depending on who I'm talking to, especially when it comes to our team and our coworkers and our customers. So, Hey, that he was authentic. He was passionate. You know, I've got a saying, the only saying that I have up on

My wall here is nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm. Ralph Waldo Emerson, I just truly believe that. think I brought a sense of passion and enthusiasm for what we're doing here. And hopefully that's embedded in our culture. And we're enthusiastic of what we do. And just ultimately left the organization in a better place than when I...

got here. So that's from a work perspective. That's how I think. From a community standpoint, again, back very, very fortunate, both at FirstMed and Consolidated, community involvement was not only encouraged, it was expected. so it's created all kinds of opportunities with Sarah Bush, the Illinois Chamber of Commerce, Charleston Chamber, EIU, and various boards and committees.

to get involved and selfishly you grow through that. So there's definitely a give and a take, but hopefully have helped the community grow and provided some contribution there. That's important to me as well. Yeah, I I think about your time as the EIU Alumni Association president, you were on the foundation.

Christopher Swing (46:37)
Yeah, I I think about your time as the alumni association president, you were on the foundation once

Joe Dively (46:46)
Once before and now you're back in. Yeah. Round two. of trustees. You've had significant contributions and that's just Eastern. Well, I just think, you know, you you

Christopher Swing (46:46)
before and now you're on it again. Yeah. Round two, you were a board of trustees. I mean, you've had significant contributions and that's just Eastern. And I just think, you know, you know,

Joe Dively (46:58)
be prepared. I guess this is a this is a not a caution. That's not the right word. But, you know, first of all, I people who serve Eastern that I've worked with on those boards, business advisory board, all those different committees and boards, there's a lot of our alums that come in from

the fly in for the foundation and folks who drive down from Chicago. I live two and a half miles. It's easy. You got to balance it with other things, with work and family and those kinds of things. But man, there's nothing heroic about what I do compared to others when you talk about a real commitment. And I think it's good to have that local involvement. But the caution is when you say yes once and then you really do

get involved and take that role serious. Again, people recognize it and you're gonna get asked to do other things. And that's just always kind of fed on itself. And it's been a real delight and joy to give back to EIU given how much it's meant to me and my family. We're fourth generation now.

EIU grads, my grandmother, nephews and nieces, and mom and dad, brothers, sisters, EIU is a big part of our life. Well, I still go back to a lot of those experiences that I

Christopher Swing (48:12)
Well, and I still go back to, you know, lot of those experiences that I had

on those nonprofit boards, whether it Eastern or otherwise, they also helped develop me into who I am.

Joe Dively (48:18)
Eastern or otherwise. also helped develop me. No doubt. It's absolutely. You're

working with really smart people, diverse, different perspectives. And I've made great friends, but also, just as you said, man, you're going to learn. mean, going down to the hospital board.

I didn't know that vernacular. That's a business you're in. It took two years to even understand why they're talking about it. But ultimately, you learned about a whole new business model and different challenges. Same thing in higher ed. Being chairman of the Illinois Chamber of Commerce was just a great opportunity to make connections across the state and to really better understand how this state is governed and try to have a very small.

impact in that. you you look back on it, you could make a great, I could make a great case. I got more than I, than I gave. Well, and I always go back to in every situation that I joined one of those organizations and sometimes I did it because I was frustrated with what they were doing. I learned that I didn't know how it worked. Now maybe there's somebody smarter than me and they understand that stuff going in. But what I figured out was I'm frustrated about something I know.

Christopher Swing (49:09)
And I always go back to in every situation that I joined one of those organizations and sometimes I did it because I was frustrated with what they were doing. But I learned that I didn't know how it worked. Now, maybe there's somebody smarter than me and they understand that stuff going in. But what I figured out was I'm frustrated about something I know nothing

about. And I got in there and I did what I could and made the contributions that we could and left it in a better place. So now that you're in a position of influence.

Joe Dively (49:28)
Right. I got in there and I did what I could and made the contributions that we could and left in a better place. So now that you're in a position of influence,

how do you intentionally invest in others like people did for you? Yeah, you know, I went over and this just aside, I went over and spoke to Eastern Eastern Business Class, a business organization and

Christopher Swing (49:38)
How do you intentionally invest in others like people did for you?

Joe Dively (49:51)
And a young lady reached out to me, came to see me. And I love this. She took a job locally, not with First Mid, but asked me, would you be my mentor? And I'm like, God, absolutely. And I just think that's a little gutsy on her part, but it made me really admire her. It's like, of course, how can I help? And so we're going to find a way to stay in touch more formally. We embraced a leadership.

philosophy based on the leadership pipeline. with that program, it's created mentoring opportunities every time those classes meet, whether you're a leader of leaders, leader of others. I try to be in those meetings. And there are multi-day training sessions to give my thoughts, give my perspective, answer questions, and be available to our up and coming leaders.

We have some more informal mentoring programs within First Mid that in no way do I see as a burden. It's a real opportunity to give back, whether it's formal or informal.

Christopher Swing (50:53)
Joe, thank you for your time. This has been a great experience and I appreciate your second round. Hey, I think we did better the second time. I do. I think it was much more concise and focused this time around. Hey, I enjoyed it, Chris. But it was a good time. mean, thank you so much for it. I just really appreciate not only what First Mid, but also you do for the community. And I think that that's really important that people understand that,

Joe Dively (50:53)
Joe, thank you for your time. This has been a great experience and I appreciate your second round. Hey, I think we did better the second time. Yeah. Hey, enjoyed it, Chris. This was great. Yeah. Thank you so much for it. I just really appreciate not only what first did, but also you do for the community. And I think that that's really important that people understand that,

Christopher Swing (51:23)
all these nonprofits need support. They need leadership, they need help. But the other side of it is I go back to the same thing and that is in every instance I always got more than what I gave. It's not always visible at the time and sometimes it's really frustrating.

Joe Dively (51:23)
all these nonprofits need support. They need leadership, they need help. But the other side of it is I go back to the same thing and that is in every instance I always got more than what I It's not always visible at the time and sometimes it's really frustrating. Well, you've made lifelong on the

alumni board. You've got to have friends all over the state, all over the country that you, yeah. there's this, that's the common bond in that case is EIU and...

Christopher Swing (51:44)
state for the company everywhere yeah and there's this that's the common bond in that case

Joe Dively (51:53)
I appreciate your passion for Eastern as well.

Christopher Swing (51:53)
your passion for Easter as well. Thank you.

People on this episode

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Christopher Swing

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Ian Stamps

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Joe Dively

Guest