"You Are There for a Reason" – With Lucinda Hart & Christopher Swing

Summary

In this episode of the Faithful Podcast, host Christopher Swing engages with Lucinda Hart, the former President and CEO of the Effingham Chamber of Commerce and current Executive Director of the Delta Kappa Gamma Society International. They discuss Lucinda's transition into leadership in a small community, the importance of building trust and relationships, and how faith influences leadership. Lucinda shares her key accomplishments, challenges faced during her tenure, and the significance of continuous learning and authenticity in leadership roles. The conversation also touches on the unique dynamics of faith-based communities and the challenges faced by membership organizations today.

Takeaways

Lucinda Hart transitioned from Austin, Texas to Effingham, Illinois, taking over a long-standing leadership role.
Building trust in a tight-knit community requires authenticity and genuine relationships.
Leadership challenges often arise from being an outsider in a small community.
Faith plays a significant role in Lucinda's leadership style and decision-making.
Key accomplishments include improving financial controls and enhancing community engagement.
Navigating tough decisions requires transparency and focusing on the organization's best interests.
Legacy in leadership is about fostering curiosity and engagement among members.
New leaders should approach their roles with an open mind and be willing to make waves.
Experiencing a faith-based community can be refreshing and liberating for leaders.
Membership organizations face challenges in attracting and retaining members, necessitating a clear value proposition.

Sound Bites

"The chamber is for you, right?"
"You are there for a reason."
"We need that human connection."

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Lucinda Hart and Her Journey
03:12 Transitioning to Effingham: Challenges and Opportunities
06:28 Building Trust in a Tight-Knit Community
09:45 Leadership Principles and Continuous Learning
10:40 Navigating Membership and Community Engagement
13:14 Faith and Values in Leadership
15:25 Key Accomplishments at the Chamber
16:57 Facing Challenges and Making Tough Decisions
20:57 Legacy and Impact on the Chamber
26:22 Leadership Transitions and Challenges
35:12 Faith-Based Community Insights
42:59 Continuous Learning and Authentic Leadership

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Missions:
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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Lucinda Hart and Her Journey
• 3:12 Transitioning to Effingham: Challenges and Opportunities
• 6:28 Building Trust in a Tight-Knit Community
• 9:45 Leadership Principles and Continuous Learning
• 10:40 Navigating Membership and Community Engagement
• 13:14 Faith and Values in Leadership
• 15:25 Key Accomplishments at the Chamber
• 16:57 Facing Challenges and Making Tough Decisions
• 20:57 Legacy and Impact on the Chamber
• 26:22 Leadership Transitions and Challenges
• 35:12 Faith-Based Community Insights
• 42:59 Continuous Learning and Authentic Leadership

Transcript

Christopher Swing (00:00)
Welcome to Faithful, the podcast where we explore the intersection of leadership, faith, and impact. I'm your host, Christopher Swing, president and CEO of Vantage Surgical Solutions. Through thoughtful conversations with business leaders, missionaries, and change makers, we uncover the principles that guide their work and connect them to timeless wisdom. In season one, we're diving into the foundational organizations and experiences that shape my own leadership journey. Whether you're a leader in business,

faith or your community, this conversation is packed with inspiration and practical wisdom. Thank you for joining me on this journey of discovering how faith and leadership intersect in meaningful ways. Let's dive into the episode.

Christopher Swing (00:44)
So welcome back to Faithful. I today have Lucinda Hart. She was the president and CEO of the FEM Chamber of Commerce when I was the board chair. And I just learned a lot from Lucinda. She's a very interesting and very focused individual. And I think you'll get to see that as we go through this set of questions. But one of the things that

I think is unique about Lucinda's story is when we, well, a couple of different things. First of all, we recruited her from Austin, Texas, of which I was just enamored and shaken that somebody from Austin, Texas would move to Effingham, Illinois. But she does have some family in the area. And then secondarily, she inherited the chamber from a really long time employee that had been running the chamber for nearly 30 years.

So there's a lot of challenges that come with inheriting a small town organization like the Chamber of Commerce that's so integrated into the FEM community and especially from someone who had been doing it for a really long time. And so with that, I'd like to welcome Lucinda to the podcast.

Lucinda Hart (01:54)
Thank you for having me.

Christopher Swing (01:56)
So Lucinda...

Could you share a little bit about your current role at Delta Kappa Gamma Society International?

Lucinda Hart (02:04)
Yes, so I am the executive director for Delta Kappa Gamma Society International and we'll just going forward say DKG for short. So DKG is not a sorority actually it is a professional honor society of key women educators in the United States, Canada, Europe, Latin America and Japan.

So DKG promotes professional and personal growth of women educators and excellence in education. So we are getting ready to celebrate our 100 years of existence in 2029. We're preparing for that. And the reason why it does sound like a sorority is because when the group was formed, women could not,

get together for advancements of professions. so women couldn't even own cars back then. they started meeting under the pretense of a sorority name. And we've kept that name.

Christopher Swing (03:12)
That's really interesting history. you know, as we step back into the FEM Chamber of Commerce in your transition from Texas, especially including the idea that this is a relatively small community with what, 13 or 14,000 people, and, you know, Norma had been the CEO for a really long time. What was that transition like?

Lucinda Hart (03:14)
Yeah.

Christopher Swing (03:40)
for you, not only just coming from Austin to FAA Illinois, but also to really accept the organization as it was and then ultimately make your changes to it.

Lucinda Hart (03:53)
yes, it was quite a bit of a change. I would say that it was a smooth transition. Thank you to, course, you were very instrumental in that, so I need to thank you for that. But the Chamber Board and just the community was very, very welcoming.

Stepping into the leadership role after the previous leader that was there 30 years was definitely intimidating. But I was definitely up for the challenge. Not only was I going into the community from out of state, but as you said, Effingham is a small community.

close and I didn't grow up in Effingham. So the previous leader was there 30 years and the chamber is very successful and they had just gotten the chapter of the year award in 2020. yeah, was a little bit, I'm not gonna lie, it was a little intimidating coming into that. But for me, rather as a leader, especially taking over

an organization is I didn't, there's so many things that you have to do, right? And I didn't come into the mindset of I'm just going to come in and make all these changes. what I focused was really just immersing, integrating myself into the community, listening not only to our members, but the staff.

and identifying the opportunities in the chamber where I could enhance, you know, existing processes or programs based on the experience that I was bringing because, you know, the board hired me for a reason and I knew that I could do the job. And so my goal was to build on the chamber's foundation and to bring again a new perspective on.

ensuring the growth and success of the chamber.

Chris (05:58)
Faithful is proudly sponsored by Vantage Surgical Solutions, where excellence meets innovation in advanced healthcare solutions. With a foundation built on integrity, creativity, and commitment, Vantage empowers leaders to shape the future, just as we explore leadership through faith on the podcast. Vantage Surgical Solutions, standing for excellence, leading advanced healthcare solutions.

Christopher Swing (06:28)
Yeah, so to expand a little bit on that, because I experienced so much of it, one of the things that I thought you did amazingly well when you came in was you came in with a sniper and not a shotgun, right? So you didn't try to change everything. You picked like three or four things at a time. And you said, OK, here's the things that we can focus on to really make a difference.

You know the thing that I thought you did a great job with was really around your financial controls especially when it came to events and things like that and I think that's one of the things that really turned the corner right off the bat is You know that the thing that I always thought of the most was the the annual gala or whatever and Everybody spent a lot of money there I think an outsider

assumed that that was a big revenue source for the chamber. And when you came in, we kind of sat down and came to the realization that wasn't. It was a huge amount of inflows, but it had a huge amount of outflows. And so I think so often that, you know, just being transparent about, if your members realized that they were all giving up their night out,

you know, for the purposes of breaking even so they can spend time with everybody. I don't think that's where they would use their resources. And so, you know, I just commend you on that. I thought you did a great job.

Lucinda Hart (07:52)
Yeah.

Christopher Swing (07:52)
So Effingham is a tight-knit community and you mentioned it, you know, you're an outsider. I'm actually an outsider too, you know, so it's kind of fun. It was fun for both of us for different reasons, but you know, Effingham accepted me very much. They accepted you very well. how do you feel like you build that trust, because I think mine came from just being here for a really long time.

I joined the community in 2012, so I've earned those stripes a little bit along the way in different organizations and whatever, but I'd be intrigued to understand where you think you'd earn their trust.

Lucinda Hart (08:30)
Yeah, you know, I would say, It's a very tight community, runs deep, very, you know, generational. I everybody knows everybody. And for me, I would say it was about

being my authentic self, right? And staying true to who I am as a leader and a person, right? And so the only way I could do that was to build those relationships. So I focused on, you know, genuine conversations, engaging with the community, with the staff.

and being present and listening to them. so because people are going to know if you're there for, you know, for another reason. That trust is not going to be built because you can tell when somebody's being genuine and when they're not. so again, building relationships and being involved.

not only with the members, but with the community. I ended up buying a house in Detrick, which is a small community in Effingham and getting to know my neighbors, getting involved in a church. being authentic to who I am.

Christopher Swing (09:45)
taking over for a long standing leader is never easy. What advice would you give for somebody who's trying to do that and maybe what did you do to kind of guide yourself in leading that transition in Effingham?

Lucinda Hart (09:57)
Yeah, that's good. That's a good one. So.

I would say one of my four leadership principles is continuous learning. You know, I feel it's essential for a leader to continue to grow personally, professionally,

And so I think that was what really helped me in the transition was that understanding not only the Chamber's operations, you know, getting to learn about that, but also learning about, the members, the community. so that I would say that that was really the guiding principle.

that led me, that guided me through this transition.

Christopher Swing (10:40)
one of the other things that was intriguing to me is that obviously we won the Chamber of the Year in 2020,

we have a really high participation rate from membership as far as from the business organizations in the community. And we have really low turnover. there was a lot of things that could have happened during that period of time, even during COVID and whatever, but it didn't seem like it really negatively impacted the chamber very much.

How did you rally kind of the chamber team and the community around what you were trying to do with the organization?

Lucinda Hart (11:21)
I would say first we have to acknowledge the Chamber team. mean, there is an amazing, really small team at the office that does so much, for everything that the Chamber does. You would think the Chamber has a team of 10 or 12, and four, you know, including the president and CEO. so, I mean, kudos to the team.

you my approach to both the team and the business leaders communicating, listening, and being present. I would say for the team to expand on that one a little bit would be, empowering them. And that was...

for me because the chamber does so much for the community and it seems like we're focused on, on this program, this event, and we go from event to event to program to program that we do sometimes forget to think strategically. And so I made it a point while I was there, at least once a year, I would take the team away from the office and we would spend a day, you know, strategizing.

and going over not only how we can improve current programs processes, but what do we want to do? And so that gave them the opportunity to voice their ideas and it empowered them to really be involved in the chamber on a strategic level.

Christopher Swing (12:48)
Yeah, I agree. think that so often we get so busy that we kind of just get caught up in the daily activities. know at Vantage, one of the things that happens to us is we end up being firefighters a lot of the time. And instead of doing the things that are important, we do the things that are urgent. And we confuse the two. Like we get so fixated that what's urgent is important.

Lucinda Hart (13:06)
Correct.

Mm.

Christopher Swing (13:15)
And what's urgent is rarely important as far as the long-term organization is concerned. So as part of the Faithful Podcast, we're really focused on values and faith that shapes leadership. And the idea behind it isn't so much that you have to have faith or you have to have values in order to be a leader. But the idea is that there's usually some interconnectedness between

what our core values are as people and how we lead our teams. So tell me, are there any particular values or how does your values or your faith and how did they affect your leadership when you're at the chamber?

Lucinda Hart (13:54)
my faith was the reason why I'm at the chamber. Why was that the chamber?

I still do listen to Christian worship music on the way to the office, because God put me in this leader position for a reason. And so when I was in Effingham, I'm at the chamber for a reason. And so my prayer would be that God would use me in this leadership position for His will.

And I don't know what it was. mean, as you mentioned, you saw some things and I still may not know some of them, but I know that they made an impact. But I will say that it was refreshing coming to the chamber where faith is openly embraced. That was definitely very refreshing. Previously, my background.

working for an international association where the, the culture and we have so many different faith beliefs. You know, I couldn't say Merry Christmas, Happy Easter. And so coming to the chamber where it was so openly embraced, was, it was very refreshing. It was nice.

I do believe that God has put me in leadership for a reason. And I have it right in front of my wall, actually right now is Philippians 4 13. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. And that's really. What has shaped me as a person, what has shaped me as a leader, because I can't do it.

without Christ in my life.

Christopher Swing (15:25)
So what are some of the key accomplishments you're most proud of from when you were at the chamber?

Lucinda Hart (15:30)
You know, I would say the stuff in the back end that nobody sees that really improves what the community does see, you know, and you know, a lot of them, you know, I'll name a few of them, but yeah, turning around programs that were break even or in the red, a member's not going to be able to see that. And so,

As a board member, when you're looking at the bottom line and you're looking at the financials and of course the reporting that we do, that's huge because we're delivering the programs, the services to the members, but yet it's having a huge impact on the bottom line. changing processes, again, that would help.

the staff, I say those are early wins. really, of course, the transition itself, you know, being embraced by the community, I felt it was a very smooth transition. I mean, you tell me you were on the other end. I felt it was a very smooth transition. I think.

Christopher Swing (16:30)
I think people were

wowed by you. I think it was a very positive thing for the community.

Lucinda Hart (16:36)
those are some of the wins.

Christopher Swing (16:38)
So, and I know we faced some challenges while you were here, and I don't know if any of them would qualify as significant, but one of the things that I thought about was like what were some of the challenges or did you have any significant pushback and how'd you navigate those moments?

Lucinda Hart (16:57)
there were some challenges. There were times that, you know, as a chamber president, I was involved in a lot of community, task force, if you want to call them. And so which were outside of the chamber, there were community, focus groups, And so

I didn't, so the people that would attend those, I wouldn't see on a regular basis. And so I didn't get to form those relationships that I would have with the chamber members when I'm out at chamber events. but, I would say sitting in those meetings and physically getting comments,

you are not from here, what are you going to, And so those are definitely challenges. And in some of the the lessons for me was, of course, how to navigate them in a loving again, have to draw back on my faith in a loving, but yet authoritative way where

yes, I'm not from here, but just because I didn't grow up in this area doesn't mean I can't bring value and input. And my experiences, if anything, think they did benefit the community. So those were definitely challenges and lessons, but navigating those, again, I had to draw on my faith because I couldn't go in there with a chip on my shoulder and, you

So yeah, there was definitely some of those moments that were challenging that had to do with not being from the area.

Christopher Swing (18:26)
Yeah, I remember going to a meeting with you one time and I was sure thankful that we didn't have the struggles that that organization had. And so that's the thing that always comes to mind when I think about you and some of the challenges here and it had nothing to do with the chamber. We were just there for some tangential thing and it was just quite an experience. So wow. Can you share a time when you had to make a tough leadership decision?

Lucinda Hart (18:46)
thing else.

Christopher Swing (18:54)
You know, at the chamber, all the things that we've talked about, kind of create a unique situation because it's a small community. Everybody knows everybody. Everybody knows what's going on everywhere at times, it feels like. And so, not only like what guided your thinking, but how did you approach it in a way to, control the impact of what you're trying to accomplish?

Lucinda Hart (19:20)
Yes, so the chamber right before I joined the chamber, a new workforce development initiative was launched and I had to implement it. And so coming on board, I did, embrace it and really promoted to the members and it was a.

very, it was a wonderful program, but it was, had a big price tag to it. And we just did not get any traction on the program. And, I made the decision that I needed to go to the board of directors and, and tell the board that we needed to, you know, get out of this contract.

and quit this initiative because we were not getting the traction that we wanted. We were not getting the, you know, the ROI that we needed for this huge financial investment. And instead of just saying, OK, we can't do this is too expensive. I did come up, with a alternative solution that we can enhance our website with.

some what some of those features that that initiative was doing so that it would be an easy transition for the members that were utilizing that program. And so, I mean, it's definitely, pressure in going to and admitting to the board that, this is not working and we got to stop. And ultimately, it's in the best interest for the chamber. And so that's that's one that definitely comes to mind.

Christopher Swing (20:57)
Yeah, I think that's a great point. That was definitely a struggle. as we kind of transition to, you know, legacy influence, impact, whatever you want to call it, looking back, what are you most proud of in the evolution of the chamber while you're there? I do think that, you know, the the mark that you left will will be there for a really long time. I mean, I think we made some significant impacts.

And I think that it will continue to evolve under the new leadership, and she'll have impact in other places that maybe we didn't spend a ton of time. But what are you most proud of in kind of the legacy that you left there? And what do you hope that the Chamber will either continue doing or...

or recognize from your contributions while you were there.

Lucinda Hart (21:52)
You know, I think that, well, first of all, I think the new president and CEO is doing an amazing job. You know, I followed the chamber on on on Facebook and Instagram, and I love seeing the chamber success and I wish her the very best and the chamber as well. Everybody, the team. And, I think for me, what I brought to the chamber was

I don't want you know, the previous leader did an amazing job, but was there for 30 years. And I think what happened with the chamber, as I think you've probably seen it as well as sometimes when somebody is in leadership for so long that they're like, she has it. No, problem. You know, she she has it covered. She's doing a great job. And that is true. That is definitely true. But the chamber

the business leaders that are members of the chamber, this is your organization, right? And so the leaders, the chamber president, works for you, right? And so I think what I brought in as in what I brought to the chamber as an outsider coming in was, think it brought, especially the board, I think was like, well, no, how do we do that? So that, that,

feeling or that atmosphere of curiosity, maybe, and in rejuvenating, think rejuvenating the chamber again. so, and getting more engaged in it, because I think when I came in as an outsider, there was a lot of questions that were asked for me, which was good. There's a lot of questions that were asked for me. And so,

I hope that that continues because again, as a leader, we are here to serve you and so it's not about coming in and I'm the leader. I'm in charge. This is what we're going to do this. This and this. mean, you know how it goes. It's like no, I'm here to serve you and in order to do that. You have to be involved as well. You know as as a member of the Chamber, so you have to ask those questions. You know, get engaged.

And I hope that that's the impact on the chamber is that re-engagement, curiosity, and wanting to be involved.

Christopher Swing (24:18)
Well, and I think, I'm also in the same boat. Like, I think Norma did a great job and there's no complaints there. But I think when you have a transition of leadership, it gives a renewed desire to understand from a new perspective how things work. And it takes the guard down, right? Because when I'm, when I was asking you, is this how this is supposed to work?

It wasn't your past 30 years that caused us to be at that point. And so there was no ill will between us. We could have open and frank dialogues just to say, I'm not trying to question you. I'm just trying to understand from your experience running international organizations, because who am I? I don't do this stuff for a living. You know, what your perspective is. And I think it gave us the opportunity to have some.

significantly more in-depth conversations. If I had been the president while, or the chair while Norma was president, I probably wouldn't have asked a lot of those questions of her because, well, for a couple of reasons. First of all, who am I again to ask questions of someone who's been doing this for 30-some years in this community and had way better relationships than I'll ever have here? But secondarily, you know, I don't know

what things are there because it was her desire to have those things. And I knew that most of the things that were here weren't here because of your desire, because you were just getting here. And so it gave us really the ability not to tear apart or to, even really to get rid of anything. It was really just to understand,

does this fit with our mission and what we're trying to accomplish as a nonprofit organization? And I think that's where it was really good to have someone with your experience because you could really come in and say, well, here's the pros and here's the cons and here's why I think we've done this in the past and here's things that probably way outlived the fad.

Within chambers and so I mean I just thought we Not only our group with you, but also you with the groups before and after me I Can't forget Jeff, you know, he's just a whole different animal Jeff spear we won't talk too much about you because I don't have Explicitives in in this podcast. So

Lucinda Hart (26:22)
Mm-hmm.

yeah.

Chris (26:44)
Faithful is brought to you by Vantage Surgical Solutions, where we believe in progress through passion. If you're inspired by innovation and excellence in healthcare, we invite you to join our team. At Vantage, we're not just shaping the future of healthcare. We're empowering individuals to make a difference. Visit our careers page to explore opportunities and see if your journey aligns with ours. Vantage Surgical Solutions, where passion meets purpose.

Christopher Swing (27:16)
So thinking about some of your experience, I think that's a good segue. You've had, obviously, local roles, like in the chamber, but you've had international roles, major international roles, where you were covering multiple continents of members. And what advice do

from those experiences and from those transitions, would you give to other leaders that are stepping into new and or challenging roles? Something that's maybe outside of their norm. Because it was a lot different to be in a local organization versus an international one.

Lucinda Hart (27:53)
Yes, it was a lot different. my husband grew up in the area. So I, it was, it's funny, one of the first questions that the recruiter asked me is, do you know where Effingham, Illinois is? I said, I sure do know where Effingham, Illinois is. I mean, and we've had this conversation. I know you, you've mentioned that like, why is this girl coming from Austin, Texas to...

But, you know, I would say that.

It's essential that

leadership, whether it's a huge international organization where I'm currently at and previously at as well, you know, we have leadership.

challenges They might be at a different level for sure, but the challenges are going to be the same. So I would say leaders that are stepping into these kind of roles is. You know, you were given this opportunity for a reason, so if you're new to leadership or even if you're a seasoned leader.

I would say go into those roles with an open mind and again be authentic and transparent because you are a leader for a reason, and so the the team typically there is a, a whether it's a.

committee that's hiring the leader or, management board of directors, they saw something in you. so step into those leadership roles with an open mind. You have that experience and, don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to make a little waves, you know, maybe not go in there and, totally rock the boat, but

Make a couple of ripples and sometimes though you have to sometimes you got to make a big splash and and it's needed but don't be afraid to do it because you're there for a reason.

Christopher Swing (29:49)
Yeah, I completely agree with that, Lucinda. I think so often we fail to call a spade a spade when we see it. And when you do that, you fail to get clarity for your team about how big of a deal that this is. So for instance, I've led turnarounds. And that is...

very hard thing to do. And for a new leader, I would not recommend it until you've been a part of it. And the biggest failures that I see in people who lead turnarounds is their unwillingness to be transparent with their team about how big of a change really needs to be made. So like, for instance, and this isn't the case in your situation, but

Let's say that you had came into the chamber and we were burning like $100,000 a year and we had $50,000 in cash. Like, you can't just band-aid things and hope that it's going to fix itself. Like, you have to be willing to say, look, we have some serious issues and we have to make some hard decisions. I think so often,

the lack of clarity. I don't think it's the intention of not being transparent, but I think it's the lack of clarity to say, wow, this is a bigger issue than what we realized. Like, this is a problem that we need to be very clear about. So one of the things that I want to ask you about, and it's because of my experience here in Effingham, and it's a little bit intriguing to me, even from my hometown, which is just north of here about.

30, 35 minutes or whatever, is Effingham is a very religious community, a very faith-based community. And it is so refreshing. I just want to know, what did you think after you got here? Was that refreshing for you? Because I'll be honest, like...

And I'm not Catholic, and most of the people in this community are Catholic. And that's fine. I don't have anything against Catholics. I was just refreshed that people didn't freak out when we said Merry Christmas. And to be honest, this year, I don't know if it's because of the presidential election. I'm not getting political. I got more Christmas cards that said Merry Christmas this year than I've ever gotten in the past. And so I don't know if people feel emboldened or what's going on.

Lucinda Hart (32:06)
Thank

Christopher Swing (32:15)
But I want to put into context, I live in this little bubble in central Illinois. And even in my community, it's very, very religious. It's very faith-based. But this community is a whole other level of faith-based. I mean,

All I can say is for the outsider who doesn't have their faith in this community, you would feel like an outsider. Because a lot of things in the community revolve around faith. It doesn't mean that you can't participate here and that people wouldn't welcome you or anything like that. I'm just trying to give some perspective to the world how unique this community is, comparative to everywhere I've been. And so just wondered what your thoughts were on

Coming here, now you obviously had some family in the Newton area, which is really close to here, right? Isn't that where Will's family's from? And so you knew what you were getting into, but coming from Austin, like that had to be somewhat refreshing to be able to step back and not have to stress about, know, upsetting someone and things like that.

Lucinda Hart (33:04)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yes, you know, it.

It was, as I mentioned earlier, very, refreshing because you couldn't say, you know, you had to say happy holidays and even within the staff, you know, at my previous nonprofit, there was, we didn't have a Christmas party, you know, we had a holiday party and, those terms and your email, your signatures and things like that.

And so when I came to the chamber and then it's like getting invited to the National Day of Prayer, I was like, wait, what? And then attending meetings, know, attending meetings to where they're opening up in prayer or heck, even saying the Pledge of Allegiance, it's like even just that, like we don't I was not used to that. I'm just going to say so it was.

Christopher Swing (33:53)
Yeah.

Lucinda Hart (34:07)
It was nice. felt, you know, it felt good. It was nice. It felt good. It was different and that I could express my not that I didn't previously. I mean, I had to show it in different ways, but to be so, I guess maybe it was freeing. It felt freeing, if that makes sense.

Christopher Swing (34:25)
Yeah, it's one of the things I love about this community. And there's a lot of things I love about the community, but it's just amazing to be able to, you know, express your feelings of faith and not have any concerns related to somebody negatively impacting someone because there's just so very few people. And maybe some of it is just that, I don't experience everyday life.

Lucinda Hart (34:27)
Yeah.

in a sense.

Christopher Swing (34:48)
In Effigy, I might go out for lunch and, do things from time to time with the business community. But definitely in that group, it seems to be very pro-faith.

Looking forward, what are you trying to accomplish in the DKG? I'm just intrigued to hear what's going on there. obviously you transitioned and now you're back in Austin, Texas, where it's nice and warm while it's really cold here. And tell us what's going on in your world there.

Lucinda Hart (35:07)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, so DKG is at a really at a crossroads where this organization was started by a kind of mentioned earlier, women were not allowed to meet. And so it was very it was a secret society. You had to be invited to

Join this organization and even now if you go to our website, you can't click join now. So we're bottom up, meaning that a member. Technically still does have to get invited and so, however, if they reach us, we can get them in contact with the local chapter in the area, but they they join their local area.

and then their local chapter and then the state organization and then international, right? And so right now, membership is declining, at DKG. And so we're looking and the membership is aware of that. And as a leader coming in, I'm really looking forward to

looking at our governance structure at what is preventing growth and really looking into the members are really looking into how can we change, you know, our bylaws so that we can promote members and, you know, encourage membership growth. And so what is preventing us?

It's not going to happen overnight. There is a task force that was, you know, that was appointed by our international president. I sit on the task force and that is one of the areas that I am. You know that that I that I have a lot of experience is governance structure bylaws, and so I'm really looking forward to this next how we're going to approach that and how we're going to turn that around.

for for DKG's growth so looking forward to that.

Christopher Swing (37:19)
And so for the listeners that aren't really membership organization based, what you're seeing is not that uncommon from my understanding in the membership world today. My experience comes from the Alumni Association at the university that I was at. I was on that board for 10 years. And we struggled with some of the same things. It just seems like,

And maybe you can explain a little bit of this, but it just seems like people don't necessarily associate or maybe they don't. They're not as quick to like join organizations like that as they used to be.

Lucinda Hart (37:55)
there's so many, reasons why that's the case. But yes, with all the changes in technology.

there's so much that's out there. And so why do I want to belong? Why do I want to pay dues to an organization? And there has been that. And then, of course, COVID just completely throws in for a loop, right? For a lot of associations, a lot of membership-driven organizations. But to some degree, I think that's when we also realize

that we need that human connection, right? We need that connection. I know I've drilled it into my children's head that, whatever profession you're going to get into, there's an organization for that. And you need if that is your passion, you know, and you need to be a part of that community, because it's

once we get a job, whether you're a leader, you're a manager, you're just an employee. mean, you can't just you have to continuously learn, improve yourself. And the way to do that, there's a lot of ways, for membership driven organization, it's going to be that networking. That's definitely a key benefit. But there are so much more. These organizations, they're focused.

in providing programs, initiatives that are going to benefit the members. So of course, the chamber business leaders, in the community, the chamber does a lot for the community as well. Workforce development, community events to to bridge to bring the community together. And then, you know, you mentioned the alumni.

There's a need for these organizations, but we really what we need to focus on is definitely bringing the value to the interested potential members that don't know about us. And because, this is a trend in nonprofit association, association management is that. Members.

Or I should say potential members is like, why do I need to join? Why do I need to pay dues for that? And we need to promote the value and establish that connection that we need.

Christopher Swing (40:10)
I think one of the best pieces of advice I got in relation to nonprofits and value, because I hear that so often, is like, well, what's your value statement or what's your value proposition to your members? The one thing that I can tell the listeners is that every organization that I engaged with, like joined their board or became a committee member or did something, I found value.

Lucinda Hart (40:22)
Yeah.

Christopher Swing (40:36)
But the key to it is that the way that I see value and the way that Lucinda sees value or the way somebody else sees value is different. And so often, if you just take it surface level on marketing material and you look at what somebody's selling and you're like, it's not really for me. But then you get involved and all of sudden you're like, well, they don't even think this is of value and I think it's huge. That continuous learning that...

Lucinda Hart (40:36)
of you.

Yeah.

Christopher Swing (41:04)
having business leaders around a table so that way we can all talk about the struggles that we have because we all have very similar struggles, even in way different industries, But not saying that it's always personnel, but it seems like a lot of times it's about personnel. And so I would just encourage people to engage before you write off an organization, engage with it because...

Lucinda Hart (41:14)
Yes.

Yes.

Christopher Swing (41:26)
I have found significant value in pretty much every organization that I engaged. And the whole idea that if you don't put some effort into it, you won't get anything back out of it is so true. And so I would just, before you write off an organization at this day and age, and the funny thing is, Lucinda, is I actually went to a legislative meeting this last week for the first time since I was the president or the chair.

I can't ever remember what my title was, chair. And I knew it was bad when Rick Seymour walks up to me and says, who are you? Anyways, sorry for that. so anyways. So as you think about our time together and what a blessing you are to this community and to that organization, I can answer.

Lucinda Hart (41:59)
That's funny.

Christopher Swing (42:10)
some of those questions from earlier about, you know, whether or not you'll have lasting impact. Absolutely. There will be things that will be forever done differently because of your fingerprint on that organization. And I think that's true of most of us that participate in organizations because, you know, they, they need people to engage. They need people to be willing to volunteer and

I think it was Jeff Spear actually that encouraged me to really engage, to get the value out of the chamber, and I think there was a lot of truth there. What are some of the things or maybe a key principle that you would encourage others to use or maybe even a book or something that you find important?

in your leadership journey that you'd like to leave the listeners with.

Lucinda Hart (42:59)
Goodness, you know, that's a good one. is.

I would say is.

you know, going back to the conversations that we had earlier and one of my what is it my strengths I did the STEM strengths binaries one of you would not be shocked that belief is one of my top five. And so I do believe that

Everybody you're put there for a reason. So whether you're, the receptionist, the manager, the CEO and so.

I would say one of my principles is that you're there for a reason. Trust that and learn from it, grow. So it goes back to that continuous learning personally and professionally. that's what I would say would be one of the principles is believe that you're there for a reason.

dedicate yourself to continuously learning and growing personally and professionally.

Christopher Swing (44:03)
And, you know, along the faith lines, if you could challenge ourselves to apply one faith-driven leadership principle in their own lives, what would it be?

Lucinda Hart (44:14)
I would say be authentic and stay true to your values.

Christopher Swing (44:19)
And I think that's really the premise behind this podcast is I love speaking to people that have faith and I love speaking to people who maybe are in organizations like your international one where you can't really utilize it because one of the things that's intriguing to me is you either have faith or you don't have faith. And if you have faith, it impacts who you are.

if you have integrity, it has to. And I think people see that even if you don't call it faith, you call it that you're ethically and morally sound. You can talk about it in 10 different ways, but I think it's intriguing.

Lucinda Hart (44:48)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Christopher Swing (45:05)
I just think it's very cool to see how we can use those same guiding principles to affect us in our leadership and organization. So, Lucinda, thank you for taking the time. It was really fun to catch up, to be honest. It's been too long. just getting to interact with you reminded me of how much I valued you while you were here.

Lucinda Hart (45:16)
Yes.

Christopher Swing (45:32)
And for one of the other things that I think we shouldn't leave out is that Will pretty much went to everything. Like you guys were authentically in the community and I'm not kidding, like I don't think I ever went to an event that Will wasn't at. And I'm sure there was one somewhere along the line, but the point that I'm trying to make is, as you guys jumped in with two feet.

You are 100 % committed to this community. There was no question about that the entire time that you're here. We're so thankful for your time that you came and you gave to us and did an amazing job. And I'm so grateful for you taking the time out of your day to meet with me and just allow me to kind of relive some of those times that we had not too terribly long ago, just in the last few years.

Lucinda Hart (46:21)
Yeah,

yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah, that was nice. Thank you.

Christopher Swing (46:25)
It was great to have you

and I hope you all tune in to the next episode of Faithful. One of the things that we didn't really talk about, I'd to razz Matthew Porter, one of my...

previous episode guest because he's very much against using the core value of integrity and I write it all over everything and so I just want to remind him it's still a core value, Matthew. Anyways, I hope everyone does well. Have a great week and we'll catch up with you next week.