Faithful

From General Manager to CEO: A Leadership Transition with Kory Culp

• Christopher Swing • Season 1 • Episode 9

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Summary

In this conversation, Kory Culp, CEO of Clearwater Service Corporation, shares his journey from a water operator to a leader in the water utility sector. He discusses the importance of leadership qualities, the challenges of growth, and the impact of community engagement. Corey emphasizes the significance of culture in an organization, the balance of multiple roles, and how faith guides his leadership style. The conversation highlights the transformative growth Clearwater has experienced under his leadership and the commitment to providing safe drinking water to the community. In this conversation, Christopher Swing and Kory Culp explore the intricacies of leadership, emphasizing the importance of integrity, faith, and culture in decision-making. Kory shares his journey at Clearwater, highlighting how a focus on culture transformed the organization. They discuss the challenges faced by young leaders, the significance of mentorship, and the need for authenticity in leadership roles. The dialogue culminates in reflections on long-term vision and accountability in leadership, underscoring the responsibility leaders have to their teams and organizations.

Sound Bites

"I always ask, are we at risk of losing life?"
"We didn't do 30% growth in the 15 years prior."
"We are there to bring safe, clean drinking water."
"I see faith as a teacher in many ways."
"We hold our hands and we say a prayer."
"Integrity is one of our core values."
"I don't think you can call that a coincidence."
"We made a conscious effort to change the culture."
"Be undeniably the right answer."
"Don't get caught up in that imposter mindset."
"Pour your heart into it and give it your all."
"What you see is what you get."



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Christopher Swing (00:00)
Welcome to Faithful, the podcast where we explore the intersection of leadership, faith, and impact. I'm your host, Christopher Swing, president and CEO of Vantage Surgical Solutions. Through thoughtful conversations with business leaders, missionaries, and change makers, we uncover the principles that guide their work and connect them to timeless wisdom. In season one, we're diving into the foundational organizations and experiences that shape my own leadership journey. Whether you're a leader in business,

faith or your community, this conversation is packed with inspiration and practical wisdom. Thank you for joining me on this journey of discovering how faith and leadership intersect in meaningful ways. Let's dive into the episode.

Christopher Swing (00:44)
Hello and welcome back to Faithful. My name is Christopher Swing. I'm here today with Kory Culp. Kory is the CEO of Clearwater Service Corporation of which I've been a board member since 2008. He joined in 2019 and became the GM in 2022, subsequently the CEO in 2023. He's a master sergeant in the Air National Guard.

a husband and a father to two great kids. Kory has been a blessing to Clearwater. Under his leadership, we've acquired three water distribution networks and add a new raw water capacity. We're currently investing in significant water main extension project and we're doing some long range planning. Well, we're doing the beginning of long range planning. Thanks to Kory's leadership, we are doing

long-range planing.

Kory Culp (01:39)
Appreciate it, Chris. I'm glad to be here.

Christopher Swing (01:41)
So Kory, what led you to join Clearwater Service Corporation in 2019?

Kory Culp (01:47)
Coming to Clearwater was kind of by luck, honestly. If you back up one more year from that in 2018, was just coming home from a deployment overseas. I had just gotten married. My wife and I were building our house and expecting our first kid.

working as a water operator for the city and really not happy with the position that I was in and talking with colleagues in the water industry. It got back to the city and general manager at the time of Clearwater and he just stopped by my house one day and wanted to have a conversation to see why I was getting out of the industry. And through that conversation, we kind of figured out that he did not have a

proper exit plan for his retirement and he was really looking for somebody to follow in his footsteps. And the rest was history after that about six months later, I joined the team and hit the ground running.

Christopher Swing (02:41)
What leadership qualities have been most essential in your transition from the general manager of the organization to the CEO?

Kory Culp (02:41)
What leadership qualities have been most essential in your transition?

Being a CEO versus general manager is really just going from worried about the day-to-day operations to looking at where the organization needs to go and the vision that the management team and the board has for the organization and then facilitating us getting there. So really walking away from the day-to-day, I had to have that trust in the people that I put into power and to

Christopher Swing (02:49)
Venus.

Kory Culp (03:12)
running the day to day, that way I didn't have to worry about it and that way I can move forward into looking into the future. I think the most important thing was the culture that we built prior to that. I think a good leader brings the culture of an organization and that is where the foundation of a organization is made. So really coming in as a young leader, had to

gained not only the trust, but the respect of my employees and my counterparts. Not only that I'm going to do my job and that they can trust that, but when I do make a decision or when I'm looking at where the company is going, that they can trust that I've already thought about them and what's best for them and the members of the corporation.

Having that foundational trust really let me move from day-to-day operations to build the future of the corporation made it pretty seamless.

Christopher Swing (04:05)
What do you think was the most difficult part

of that transition from a GM role to a CEO?

Kory Culp (04:10)
Thanks.

Again, going back to that culture, know, the employees didn't see me day to day the way that they did before. And I really had to drive home the understanding that even though that I'm not here and you don't see me, you don't see what I'm doing day to day, I'm still here working and I'm working on your behalf. And really, as we progress through that,

the employees started to understand that and really got them excited about where the company was going because they felt like they had a voice of where the company not only has been but where it's going that they never had before.

Christopher Swing (04:44)
Yeah, I think

Kory Culp (04:44)
Yeah, I think

from a board perspective, was a difficult transition for us as well because it was kind of the transition of the decision.

Christopher Swing (04:45)
from a board perspective, it was a difficult transition for us as well because it was kind of the transition of the decision

process, right, from the board to you as the leader. And it was necessary because as many people that have sat on boards in the past know, you know, we're not in a position to know what's actually going on on the day to day.

Kory Culp (04:59)
it was necessary because

Christopher Swing (05:10)
But yeah, we were being tasked with making decisions primarily about things we really knew nothing about. And so when Kory came to the organization and not only showed the capacity and the willingness to lead, but also the capabilities to be an effective leader, it became really obvious to me and I think many of the board members that

We needed to make the transition in order to make the organization more effective and really to level up the organization and enable it to be a self-sustaining entity in which it really hadn't been in the past. so, kudos to you. I really enjoy seeing you continue to grow and every year the organization gets better.

the information gets better and just the connectivity of the team seems to improve. So since becoming the CEO of Clearwater, we've expanded significantly. What is your approach to growth and to long range planning?

Kory Culp (06:07)
So since we've come in the CEO of Clearwater, we've expanded significantly. What is your to growth and to long-range land?

Yeah, looking at it in three years, we've grown over 30%. And just to put that in perspective, we didn't do 30 % growth in the 15 years prior to that. we're talking about growth that the company has not seen ever before. And we really didn't know how to handle it. But I think that goes back to the culture that not only myself, but the other

managers in the organization have worked so hard to create. We are very open with every employee down to, for myself down to the guy that's reading meters or doing locates. They know what our goals are. They understand it and through the culture of us having their trust and them understanding that we have their buy-in to where they're excited.

They don't see this growth as a negative thing of, I'm going to have more work to do, or what does that add on to me? They see it as an opportunity to expand not only the company, but themselves. And really building that culture and getting everybody on board has created this infectious...

culture.

Christopher Swing (07:21)
So, you know, none of us are utility operators and to be honest, I'm sure

Kory Culp (07:23)
None of us are.

honest.

Christopher Swing (07:28)
Thankful that you guys are out there, but probably none of the listeners are. Most of them are entrepreneurs or senior leaders of organizations. so help us to understand some of the challenges that you've faced with your growth. We've all experienced growth in different ways, whether it be organic growth or acquisition growth.

had to overcome some of those challenges of culture, et cetera. But I think one of the unique things about Clearwater is we were positioned for growth. We just didn't have a desire for growth before you came into the organization. And to be honest, we didn't have growth, the impact to the organization from a rate perspective would have been even more significant.

than what it already has been. so, help us as non-operators, non-utility workers, what are some of the struggles that you've encountered while increasing our distribution and also building your water main extension or your raw water capacity?

Kory Culp (08:42)
Yeah, so water is the only utility that comes into your house through a line that you ingest into your body. And we take that pretty seriously. And so does the EPA and the state and federal governments. And a lot of those measures that are put into place help us, but they also tend to hinder us and drive up prices. We look at all the new regulations that come out. Well, all those regulations come out

do nothing but drive up costs because they're mandated. When you start looking at all these small companies and your small village water source, whether they get their water from another company or they are making it themselves or however they're getting it, they're following the same standard. So when we look at making water ourselves and then selling it wholesale to another entity,

there's a lot of redundancy on testing just because that's way it was built into the system. So some of the hurdles that we've seen is trying to get the end user to understand and the members and the hopeful new members that we're not out there trying to monopolize it. We're really trying to lower the overall cost for the end user. And we can do that by cutting out some of the

the red tape of having to do things twice or having to test things twice. And, you know, it's simple business on scale. know, the more we grow, the cheaper we can do things. trying to relay that in a manner that, you know, the voting member in a small town in central Illinois can understand and get behind hasn't always been the easiest thing.

Christopher Swing (10:19)
So I think that's why we've aligned so well from board to CEO and vice versa is that vision that you have to not grow just for the purpose of growing, but to truly grow for the purposes of maintaining our costs or reducing our costs.

And, you know, it's very interesting to think about the fact that that's the only utility that we receive where we actually ingest it. it is I think everybody who is a Clearwater member appreciates the fact that you guys have that focus and that you're really concerned about making sure not only to deliver amazing tasting water, which you've done consistently over the years, but also to

to meet and exceed all the regulations. And we've seen the pains that come along with some of those regulations. Those of us who had to answer the questionnaire lately about, you know, what's in our water pipes, like any of us really know what's in our water pipes.

You know, as you think about the continued growth and mainly what comes to mind is kind of the water main extension or maybe even the raw water project that you're working on. what excites you about that and kind of how does that position you, to kind of level up the organization again here in the near term?

Kory Culp (11:40)
Yeah, when I look at the future and where we're going, I always want to take a tactical pause and look at, all right, where did we come from and what are the things that we want to stay consistent in the organization moving forward? Clearwater was founded on the idea that we were there to bring safe, clean drinking water to the rural community. And we're still doing that. We're just doing it at a larger scale and our community is widening.

Christopher Swing (12:00)
you

Kory Culp (12:03)
But we have to stay true to our roots when we do that. And we do that by operating efficiently, ethically, and morally. And that's really grassroots of the organization of when we move forward, does this we are as an organization? Morally, is this right? And ethically, is this right? And those are really the pillars of

when we make a decision, you that's what we base it off of. So, you know, I look at the extension project we're doing. And for your listeners, you know, we're we basically acquired a water district that had a water treatment plant that was past its prime to the point where it was going to take more capital to get it to the standards it needs to be.

at than they could afford. So we stepped in and kind of took over at that point with the promise that we would bring them water from our water plant. It's about a nine mile journey up to them. And I'd be remiss if I said I wasn't excited about the potential growth after that or the doors that it opens up in the areas. But really what gets me excited is being able to update those people on how close we are and

hearing the stories about how excited the people are to be able to take out their in-home water filter system that they have to use because the water that they're getting right now leaves stains in their showers or is way too hard. So I'm super excited for our members to really get that basic need of water met on a large scale.

Christopher Swing (13:32)
You

Chris (13:34)
Faithful is proudly sponsored by Vantage Surgical Solutions, where excellence meets innovation in advanced healthcare solutions. With a foundation built on integrity, creativity, and commitment, Vantage empowers leaders to shape the future, just as we explore leadership through faith on the podcast. Vantage Surgical Solutions, standing for excellence, leading advanced healthcare solutions.

Christopher Swing (14:04)
So I want to change gears a little bit. you know, Kory's a busy guy. He's a CEO. He's a master sergeant in the Air National Guard. He's a husband and a father. And that doesn't that group of things together doesn't come without its challenges. Now, granted, I believe and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe since you became the CEO, you haven't been deployed.

though that is always a risk, how do you balance all of this? mean, those are larger responsibilities in and of themselves. how do you balance all, everybody has needs. And so give us some idea of how you deal with all of those different responsibilities.

Kory Culp (14:49)
Yeah,

I do juggle a lot. You know, I do all those things and I sit on multiple boards just like you. And one thing that I always try to remember is give my all to what's in front of me right now. when I'm doing stuff with the military, I try to focus my full strength there. When I'm working for Clearwater, I try to do that. But then I also try to integrate them to bring

things from either one to help me in my day to day. whether that's experiences or connections, I try to have them work with each other. But I never let them hinder the next one. So I don't ever want to get into a position where my military career is hindering clear water or vice versa. And the moment that that happens, I'm going to reevaluate

Christopher Swing (15:20)
you

Kory Culp (15:38)
what's on my plate and how much I can handle.

As a father, you know, I tried to immerse my kids into both cultures and to both jobs because they are two totally separate worlds that a lot of kids don't get to look into both of them. So my kids are just as comfortable running in the front doors of Clearwater and understanding what we do there and the impact we have on our community as they do of going to Peoria and running through the doors of

our squadron up there and understanding the mission that we do and how that plays a role in the world. So as a father, I try to use them as teaching tools. And in my respective areas in both of them, I really try to use those as tools in my bag.

Christopher Swing (16:20)
So give us some idea of what values are important to you and how do you instill those values within your organizations, whether that be Clearwater, their National Guard, your family, whatever. For those of you who have listened as of late, I think Matthew Porter challenges all pretty hardcore to not just operate under values

in our businesses, but that we take them home. And so I'd just be intrigued to understand from your perspective, like how you instill those within the organizations you operate in.

Kory Culp (16:52)
Yeah, so the values that I have are embedded into the culture that I create. You know, I've heard you talk about it on on your podcast and ask the question about, is is the people you work with, is that a family? And to me, it is 100 percent a family. And we treat it as such, you know, our employees know that they come first along with the members. I've never had an employee have to worry about,

Christopher Swing (17:07)
you

Kory Culp (17:14)
I had this happen at home, is work going to let me off? That's the last thing they should have to worry about. So I try to really instill those family values into the organization to where my employees don't have to worry about all the other things that are going on at work when they're at work. And they don't have to worry about whether their employer is going to have their back when those days do come. And I take that back and show my kids of,

you know, as they grow up of, this is what you should expect. And this is the standards that not only should you hold yourself, but you should hold those around you too.

Christopher Swing (17:49)
Yeah, I love that. I also like, and I've seen you interact with your spouse and I know that you guys do great together and in parenting your kids and I hope that they also recognize your kids recognize what you do for your wife is what they should expect to either do for their spouse as they get older or expect from their spouses. They get older and I think there's

a lot to be taken from that perspective. And I also see how you interact with our staff. And it is important that the staff understands that they're first as a human and then they're an employee. And for all of us who care about leadership, like, if you can't acknowledge that first they're a human and then they're your employee, then you're going to struggle.

to be able to really build a team that's gonna get you the level of productivity and effectiveness that you want. But I can tell you that when people, and this gets back to that argument, I, take it for what it is, but I firmly believe that there's a strong correlation with people who...

first feel valued as a person and then secondarily feel valued as an employee, they perform at a level that's unlike the average person does. And if you're not explicit with them to let them know that, then you'll have to wait for them to experience it. And so I always encourage people, yes, you have to act when those situations arise where you need to acknowledge them as a human first.

But don't wait for those opportunities to get them to understand that they're important to you for who they are first as a human. Because they will trust you. If they trust you in general, they'll trust you at your word. They'll act in a way that is at another level.

comparatively to if they didn't realize that in the past.

So I'll be remiss. I know that you're a man of faith and your family has faith. And I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole. But are there any particular places, either biblically or within our faith, that have guided you in your leadership? And I know that none of us use our faith.

to either significantly change how we act or necessarily how we lead our teams. But you can't take the faith out of the person. And this is kind of where this whole idea of faithful came from. It's no matter what you say, no matter what you do, even if you listen to my interview with Jake Attrell, which is an amazing leader at Eastern Illinois University, where he has a diverse

group of individuals of every faith and probably without faith, no matter what he does, you still can't strip that out of who you are. And I think just being cognizant of the fact that you have it and how you are affected by it is important, not because I want you to be able to strip that from your leadership. I actually want you to maybe be willing to

talk about where it comes from. what are your thoughts when I ask, are there any biblical principles, for instance, that have guided you in your leadership as you are today?

Kory Culp (21:20)
Yeah, when I look at faith and what it means to me or our corporation or my family, I see it as kind of the...

the beacon and our moral compass. When I do something, whether it's as a father or as a CEO or as a board member or any of the other hats that I wear, I like to take a step back and measure it up to that compass. And are they pointing in the right direction? Are they pointing in moral, ethical directions that are bettering not only myself, my community,

Christopher Swing (21:34)
you

you

Kory Culp (21:54)
the organization that I'm working on behalf of or my kids in the future. So I use it as a moral compass in just about any aspect of my life. And I see my kids do it also. My daughter and my son, as you know, go to school at your church. And my daughter comes home all the time. And, you know, the other night she was singing the Pledge of Allegiance and then she went into

The Pledge of Christianity, And we sit around for a family that doesn't attend church every Sunday. Every night when we sit down for dinner, we hold hands and we say a prayer. And that came from my daughter. So I see faith as a teacher in many ways, but it also really guides me in how I act.

Christopher Swing (22:41)
So this question is a little bit loaded. And I think it's important that we take the perspective that you're a relatively young leader, because you are. You definitely have the blessing of time on your side. For anyone who can see the video, I've got the gray hair everywhere. You've got this nice pelt of brown hair still.

which indicates that you maybe haven't been run over as many times as I have. have there been moments in your career where you either had to use faith to rely on or maybe that it's come into a difficult decision? And maybe it's back to what you were saying just a minute ago, and that is that recognition that

Maybe we're getting into some of that gray stuff where nobody really wants to operate. And really, for those of us who are leaders of organizations, the biggest risk is not that you would step over the line, right? Or that you would make a decision that wasn't ethical or wasn't moral. The biggest risk is that people see your decision and they believe.

that it wasn't ethical or that it wasn't moral. And I think that's where it's really difficult for us, which is why, contrary to my good friend Matthew Porter, which I hope you're listening to this buddy, because I'm just going to tell you that one of my core values is integrity, even though you said that you can't stand organizations that do that. And I understand what you're saying, but...

But for our organization, I want that front and center. And yes, I have an elevated expectation of integrity than the normal person. And my statement isn't, so that way, I'll keep the integrity. it's, so that way, I don't make a decision where someone could perceive that I don't have the integrity. Because if you...

say that that's important to you, then you can't even get close to the line. And I think that's part of, sometimes that can be looked at as faith or it can be looked at as a value, but that's a long way of asking, know, have there been any moments in your career which you either had to rely on faith to make a difficult decision or to recover from, you know, a situation that's happened?

Kory Culp (25:14)
Yeah. Going back to when you talked about integrity, I actually listened to your podcast on that, driving up to Peoria to do some time with the garden. And we had a deep discussion with some of the key leaders in my organization about integrity, because

that's actually one of our core values in the Air Force is integrity first. And, you know, we had a deep conversation about really not only what it meant to us, but, you know, what was Matthew talking about when he did say that. But going back to your question about, you know, where it is, where faith has come into hard decisions. When I look at how I ended up at Clearwater,

I never saw a job posting. didn't go seeking it out. It came down to a man heard that I was leaving my job and stopped by my house and luckily I was home and answered the door and we had a conversation. So for all those things to fall into place and to land me where I am today, I don't think you can call that a coincidence. Call it divine intervention, call it what you want.

But it's things like that that puts you in the places that you are that catapults you on the trajectory of your life that I think you would be remiss into thinking that that just happened just because.

Christopher Swing (26:27)
Wow, that was deep. That's a great answer. So let's dig into that a little bit. tell me, when you join Clearwater, and this is coming from a board position, right? So a lot of those.

Decisions that were happening behind the scenes and and I give Dean credit a lot of credit really for finding you and to bringing you into the organization Because I've enjoyed your company. I've enjoyed your leadership and I've seen the growth that has taken place since you joined us and It's nothing short of a miracle not not that you weren't capable of being that but that everything aligned just like you just said so we weren't searching for

the GM role necessarily. weren't, to be honest, we hadn't really gone through any thought of, what are we going to do when Dean retires? All of us knew that was coming. know, shame on us, but there was not a lot of thought there and not a lot of concern. So what did you think you were getting yourself into when you joined Clearwater? How?

How in the heck does some young buck go from being like...

an operator, mean, you had a, you were a class A, right? So, so it's not like you didn't have a ton of value. You had a ton of value for us. But granted, we weren't really looking for a class A water operator. We had one of those. You know, other than just divine intervention, like how do you explain and, and kind of like, what was your logic when you came into Clearwater? What, did you think you were coming into? And then how the heck did we end up here in? Wow.

What an amazing transition, know, over not really that long of a period of time. I mean, we're talking like three or four years. You went from being, you know, this guy that we were bringing in to help support Dean and potentially being his transition point to subsequently making you the CEO, you know, promoting Kristen into a CFO role, like just a ton of change. And, you know, how does how did that come to be? Like, what was your what's your take on all of that?

Kory Culp (28:36)
Yeah, honestly, when I came to Clearwater, I thought it was going to be a stepping stone. I didn't see myself with a career there. Honestly, I was applying to be a police officer and I wanted to go do that. But my wife was dead set on me finding something that I would be home every night. the, you know, Monday through Friday days working.

with a baby on the way is kind of what led me to Clearwater As I got there, things, as you know, were really old school. And I don't want that to sound badly, but the company had one email for the entire corporation when I got there. There was not a whole lot of growth. Dean did a great job in building what he built because he was there for 30 years and he built it into the corporation it was. I don't want to take away from that.

But in his later years, he kind of sat back and saw what he built and slowed down on the growth. As Dean worked his way out through his retirement plan, and it wasn't just the one day he was gone, it was about a year's process of me becoming the assistant general manager and really taking over the day-to-days and using him as a sounding board for a lot of things.

I saw that as my ability to build the corporation into what I wanted it to. I had these grand thoughts in my head. And in conversations with you, you really sat me back and said, think of your three, five, seven, 15, what's your career goals? What's this? What's that? And in that first year, really we didn't accomplish a lot because we kept falling on our faces.

Christopher Swing (29:58)
you

Kory Culp (30:04)
And it wasn't until I took a step back and said, okay, why aren't we getting where we're going? Like, I'm putting these things into place. Like, why isn't it working? And was a light bulb went off in my head. It's the culture. Let's build a culture. Let's worry about the culture first and then worry about everything else. And that first year, you know, we changed little things like the work schedule.

We changed the insurance carrier that we used because most of our employees used a small town doctor's office instead of the big hospital. We made the little changes that made the employees happy to be there, gave them more than a job, created a career for them. And then through that, I got their trust, I got their buy-in. And then we started down the trajectory of

making Clearwater what it is today. And that's what got everybody excited because now that their basic needs were met of, okay, I know Clearwater has my back when it comes to pay, pension, all the other stuff. Now let's worry about the task at hand and see where we can take this thing. So really it was the pivot point and that's the big thing that, you know, through all of this that

sticks in my head. It's not one transaction. It's not one acquisition. wasn't one decision that we made. was we made a conscious effort to change the culture of the organization and we pivoted with that.

Chris (31:24)
Faithful is proudly sponsored by Vantage Surgical Solutions, where excellence meets innovation in advanced healthcare solutions. With a foundation built on integrity, creativity, and commitment, Vantage empowers leaders to shape the future, just as we explore leadership through faith on the podcast. Vantage Surgical Solutions, standing for excellence, leading advanced healthcare solutions.

Christopher Swing (31:54)
Yeah, I mean, I think all those things are true and

I mean, did you ever have any idea, like when you started all this, where you were going? And if you could do it all over again, would you change anything? And I'm just gonna keep layering some questions on here so we can break them up in a minute. And then subsequently, how you handled yourself, was that a level?

that I don't know where you got it from because I know you didn't have a ton of these experiences, but it must have come from the military or something because you just had the ability to stay cool, calm, and collected when 99 % of the world would have been like, just tell me what the hell is going on and how this is going to work. I go back to and...

I'll give a shout out here. My very first intern advantage, his name was Justin Stock, and I have a great relationship with his dad still. He's the president of the Market for Midland States Bank, also my banker. And, you know, I remember I set him down and I said, OK, here's the deal, Justin. I need you to build out this amazing expense system.

And I know you know nothing about expense systems. And I need you to use this company, which I've already signed a contract for. And I know you know nothing about them. But I need you to yourself gather the information to be able to aggregate the information in a way that is meaningful for us as an organization. And you've never worked for us in the past. There are very few people that can stand up

in those situations and you're the second one that I've really had that level of, hey, I don't have the ability or the capacity to do this. I can help you. I mean, you can call me anytime. You can text me anytime. You can come see me anytime. But where do you think that came from within you?

Maybe coupled onto that because I haven't asked enough questions, like, what advice would you give to the next guy that is 20-something? I mean, that's the...

Okay, so just to give you some perspective, that's two of us, you know, over significant responsibilities in their late 20s. And that's not very common.

So what do you think prepared you for that? What advice would you give to the next generation? looking back, what do you wish you knew when you started that you know now? And what would you have done differently?

Kory Culp (34:37)
Well, for one, I appreciate the kind words. To go back to where you started, know, would I have done it again or all that? know, once I decided that, you know, Clearwater was my home and that's what I was doing. I dove into it so wholeheartedly and it really just, it took over my entire life. was working night and day, whether it was

actually working or trying to understand what I didn't know and really what helped me through all of it was conversations with people like you, having mentors that ask really deep questions of me. These weren't phone calls that I told you, hey, this is my problem and you said, hey, go here and do that and boom, you're fixed. was more of, hey,

What do you think? Why do you think that? Did you think of it this way? And really, it's those long, long phone calls, and I'm sure annoying to you at times because I was calling you so often, that really retrained how I thought about things. And that really helped push me to where I was making pretty sound decisions at a young age.

You know, I add on top of that, you know, I look at role models. I've had great role models everywhere I go. From my parents to my grandparents in the military, you know, I have one Chief Mass Sergeant Zachary Tarr. He's Deputy Regional Director for the Federal Protective Services and was my first supervisor there. And he always told me, and he still tells me this today, you know, be undeniable.

If you're going to do something and you're going to put yourself through it, be undeniably the right answer. when you couple that mindset with, what I'm doing is I'm going to do it morally, ethically, and I'm going to do it ferociously. It's kind of hard to not be infectious with that and to move the organization forward.

Christopher Swing (36:36)
you

Kory Culp (36:38)
like

to put a lot of the credit on the people around me. without the team I built, I couldn't have done it. I think that's a testament of Clearwater and the culture we had. Because as you know, we were not holding people there for a while based off of what we were paying them monetarily. They were bought in to the idea that we were throwing out. And through those turbulent years, I think that's what

kept our core team moving is the understanding of what could be. for advice for emerging leaders of my age, don't get caught up in that imposter mindset of, I don't have a seat at this table. Because I did see that. I kind of felt like people looked at me, and then they wondered who brought their kid to work today.

Some people would treat me like that. I'd walk onto job sites and I'd have, you know, we had a foreman at the time that was old enough to be my grandpa and everybody would go to him to, you know, for questions. And, you know, that was fine. But I learned to get past that, you know, really quick of, okay, show how valuable you are, show what you bring to the table and the rest is going to fall into place. And then,

I don't think you have to have everything figured out at a young age. know, six years ago, when I started working for Clearwater, had not planned on being the CEO. I had not planned on really anything in between that besides provide for my family why I figured things out. faith and divine intervention and everything else has led me to be sitting here today and the corporation to where it is. So don't think that you need to have it all figured out at a young age.

But whatever you're doing, really pour your heart into it and give it your all.

Christopher Swing (38:16)
Yeah, I think one of the things, you know, that I think back over the timeframe in your conversions into clear water.

just your unassuming nature, your desire to be effective at whatever it is that you're doing, and your willingness to say, if this isn't what you're looking for, that's fine, just tell me and we'll change gears. And I think it enabled you to come across as

much more experienced than maybe what you were at the time. And it allowed you to grow, but not as we wanted you to grow. I mean, the reason that I like to ask you questions, especially questions that you don't know the answer to, is because it forces you and whomever that you're asking the question to to actually consider the...

global impact of what it is that they're doing. So often we think of a decision as an instance. And that'd be great, like in a science experiment, when you can control all the other variables. But the reality is that in the world that we live in, when we make a decision, there's a repercussion to that decision. It's either positive or negative. But

but we don't know what that repercussion is. But we can step back and say, OK, who does this affect? How does it affect them? How are they going to look at the decision? how are they going to perceive us as an organization? How are they going to perceive me as a leader? All those things are super important and something that often new leaders, and to be honest,

Frankly, I wish I had somebody that encouraged me to think about those things as I came through because, and I think I had mentioned it on Don's episode, I was a bull in the china shop. And unlike you, where you had a lot of finesse and were very intentional and didn't make a lot of rash decisions, I did.

And I think part of that is I didn't have somebody going, if you unleash in this glass-filled shop, what's the outcome of that? Like if you destroy everything of value here and then you buy it or you own it, like there's nothing left. And so unfortunately, you know, when I became a manager early on in my 20s,

It was more about, okay, I know where I'm at and I know where I need to get to and how fast can I get there? And as I grew up and evolved and grew as a leader, the thing that I came to realize is a lot of times it's more about the process than it is about the goal or even getting it accomplished because you work so hard to build that culture. You work so hard to build

an organization of people who have the same level of passion, even though they'll never have the same passion that you have. You hope that they have some percentage or proportion of it, and it's so easy to destroy that. And so, you know, I just encourage people to keep that in the back of their minds as they think about, you know, how do they next level in their leadership journey.

So, Kory, what do you think has given you the best edge or what do you think is the one attribute, either of your personality or your leadership style, that really has enabled you to be successful? And I know before you said that you really feel like a lot of your success has come from

your culture and I'm a firm believer in culture and I'm also a firm believer that no matter what you want the culture to be, like it rarely meets your expectations of that same culture. I guess in another way to say that is a lot of times I like to believe our culture is better than what it is. It doesn't mean that we don't keep striving for that level that we're actually shooting for. But besides that, what do you think

really makes you successful as a leader? What do you think really makes you successful as a team member, as a husband, as a father, any of those types of things? What do you think has really driven that success for you?

Kory Culp (42:52)
I really think that with me, what you see is what you get. I'm genuine with everything I do, whether it's at home or at work. At work, all the employees get to see me happy, mad. get to see the full evolution of me through

a day or a week or whatever. And with that, I give ownership of what's going on. You know, I don't, you know, ask them to do something and then pat myself on the back when it's done. You know, I really give the ownership to the team and that that has allowed me to really excel and worry about other things because now that our team members have ownership in it, they are

Christopher Swing (43:11)
you

you

Kory Culp (43:35)
are taking charge, they are policing themselves. It makes my job 100 % easier to the point where I can worry about other things. I'm a very humble person. When I walk in, I don't want people to look at me. I don't want people to look at a title and expect something out of me. I wanna be the guy on the corner that you feel the way you feel based on how I present myself and how I act.

and not of who I am or my title in an organization. be genuine to yourself and to your faith and your core values and be humble with what you do. And I think people really get behind that and respect it more at a deeper level.

Christopher Swing (44:15)
Awesome. So one final question here before we wrap this up, and that is, you know,

Give me some idea of how you think about your role because of the timeframe between now and when you retire. Because if we look back at history, and especially if we look at the Fortune 500s or bigger, we see that in a lot of instances, not in all,

and I can reference probably as many against what I'm saying is what I'm saying, but a lot of CEOs historically that were pulled said that, you know, they're most effective in the first eight years in a particular organization. But, you know, you're a local guy, you've got local roots, local family, you're engaged in the community. So

that changes how we operate, right? Because for me, I've already been the CEO for a few years here at Vantage. I actually got the CEO title in 2018, technically I would argue that that's pretty much when my CEO reign started. So I'm seven years into that process. I'm more than eight years from my intended retirement date, though.

you know, that that could always change at any given moment. But, you know, you're a young guy in a booming organization that's already had significant change, you know, since you started. And so how do you think differently because of the fact that you want to be effective for many, many years? How does that change how you manage the organization and

How does that change about, like in your vision of a long range plan versus say somebody who plans to be the CEO for about eight years?

Kory Culp (46:18)
Yeah, that's something that I think about a lot. And it's not just as a CEO, it's also my time in the military. You get a finite amount of time in the military. I progressed very quickly through my military career also, picking up E7 right over 10 years of service. And a lot of people retire at that rank. So I had 10 more years of, okay, what am I going to do?

Christopher Swing (46:40)
you

Kory Culp (46:41)
I take the same

approach to it as I do with my position at Clearwater. The moment that I stop being effective at what I'm doing, it is time for me to start working on my exit strategy. So what I mean by that is, when Clearwater stops moving forward in the direction that the board sees it or I see it or whoever sees it needing to go,

That'll be the time that I will bow out. What that means for me, I'm not sure, but I owe it to the employees. I owe it to what I've built. I've owed it to the people before me and the people after me to leave the organization at its peak when I leave. I want to be known as the guy that came in and made that pivotal shift in the organization.

that put it on the trajectory of where it's going. don't really care to be the guy that's in charge when it gets there. So I'm gonna run the race with the organization as long as I feel that I'm effective in my job and we are moving towards that goal. And the moment that we're not, I'm going to readdress it and go from there.

Christopher Swing (47:42)
I don't want to people the wrong idea, but I do want you to hear what Kory just said, and that is that we hold ourselves more accountable maybe than our counterparts do. And part of being the leader of an organization is being in tune with not only our ability, but our willingness to continue to

drive the passion and the engine of that organization. Now, I'll tell you, seven years in, I just hit a 15 % quarter over quarter growth. And that's just the beginning of the new and reinvigorated Vantage. so I could easily, based upon the new base case that we have for Vantage, see myself being here for

for eight or 10 or 15 more years potentially. But I also agree completely with what Kory said and obviously, know, now being the primary owner of Vantage because we're private equity backed, GoFair is capital by the way, they're a great business partner for us. I do find it,

somewhat my own responsibility that at the time in which I don't feel like I'm effectively driving the organization forward, just as Kory just said, I would bow out also. And so I think that's important and not so much because we called a failure at that point, but that we get out of the way so the rest of the organization

can grow and evolve kind of to that next level. I think in effect, we see this happen in lots of different places. I think it's important that

we be aware of both the pros and the cons of what we bring into leadership in our organizations. And my employees will tell you that I have really significant strengths in areas and I have significant weaknesses. so as I'm able to build the team, obviously I build the team with people who can not only

outpace me from knowledge and experience, but also can support my weaknesses. So, Kory, it's been great to have you here today. It's always a pleasure to have amazing leaders on this podcast. And we don't take it lightly that you guys are willing to take the time to share your experiences and your knowledge with the listeners. It's very important for them to have the opportunity because

If you think about it, we didn't have any of this information, right? When we were starting our journeys, you know, these things existed, but never did we have something very specifically oriented towards, you know, how do we become, how do we maintain our effectiveness, and how do we grow in effectiveness? And I think that's what causes me to do this every day is my desire not only to grow as an effective

leader myself, not that I'm not already effective, but to grow further in effectiveness, but also to give other people the opportunity because as you guys have heard me say multiple times, I never had a job where I had the experience or the knowledge to do it. I always got the job first, figured out how to do it along the way. And I think you're a huge testament to that in the sense that

You know what you were talking about earlier with the imposter stuff that you really just dug in deep and said, I got to figure this stuff out and not. Not I've got to figure it out through other people like I really have to get a grasp on my perspective of what it is that that we're doing. My perspective of what's going well and and my perspective of of where we go from here. And so kudos to you.

Kory, thanks for joining us on the Faithful, and I look forward to catching up soon. I appreciate it.

Kory Culp (51:54)
appreciate the offer and the time out of your busy day to do this.

Christopher Swing (51:58)
All right, take care guys, we'll see you soon.

Kory Culp (51:58)
Alright, take care guys, we'll see you

soon.


People on this episode

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Christopher Swing

Host
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Ian Stamps

Co-host
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Kory Culp

Guest