From College to Career: A Personal Reflection with Christopher Swing & Ian Stamps

Summary

In this episode of the Faithful Podcast, hosts Christopher Swing and Ian Stamps introduce themselves and reflect on their personal journeys, including their college experiences, early career challenges, and the importance of networking and relationships in leadership. They discuss the role of luck and faith in their success, as well as the joys and challenges of family life, including their adoption journey. The conversation culminates in valuable lessons learned and aspirations for the future. In this conversation, Ian Stamps shares his journey through vocational ministry, emphasizing the importance of education, continuous learning, and personal growth. He discusses the challenges of balancing authenticity with success in leadership roles, the dynamics of family life as a pastor, and the significance of faith in his life. Ian also shares his family's adoption journey, highlighting the values of love and protection within his family. The conversation concludes with a look ahead to future episodes and the importance of listener engagement.

Takeaways

Reflecting on personal journeys builds connection with the audience.
College experiences shape future success and leadership.
Networking is crucial for career advancement.
Luck and faith play significant roles in success.
Leadership opportunities often come unexpectedly.
Family and personal life are integral to overall success.
Adoption journeys can be transformative for families.
Building relationships is key in any business.
Success is often a combination of hard work and opportunity.
Sharing experiences can inspire others.  The sense of calling to serve in vocational ministry is profound.
Continuous learning is essential for growth in any field, especially in ministry.
Surrounding yourself with knowledgeable people is crucial for effective leadership.
Authenticity in faith is vital for genuine leadership.
Balancing personal and professional life is a daily challenge for pastors.
Adoption can be a beautiful journey that enriches family life.
Faith should dictate actions and decisions in all aspects of life.
Maintaining boundaries is important to protect family from church-related stress.
Future episodes will continue to explore impactful stories and leadership insights.

Sound Bites

"I wasn't the best student, I would say."
"I was there to enjoy and to learn."
"I never had the experience or was ready."
"They needed me to show up for them."
"I've just been really lucky."
"I think the other side of it is networking."
"I hated feelin

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Please feel free to check out the organizations that support us:

Vantage Surgical Solutions - https://vantage.healthcare/
Vantage Surgical Solutions Careers - https://vantage.healthcare/careers/
Chris Contact Info - https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherswing/

And the ones we support:

Missions:
Developing Kids Ghana - https://developingkidsghana.com/
Eastern Dominican Christian Mission - https://easterndominican.org/
Broadway Christian Church - https://broadwaycc.churchcenter.com/home/
57/70 Task Force: https://5770taskforce.org/

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Faithful Podcast Hosts
• 1:00 Reflecting on Personal Journeys
• 2:22 College Experiences and Lessons Learned
• 5:31 Early Career Challenges and Growth
• 9:03 Leadership Development and Opportunities
• 12:31 The Role of Luck and Faith in Success
• 15:30 Networking and Relationship Building
• 18:23 Adoption Journey and Family Life
• 22:55 Lessons Learned and Takeaways
• 27:53 Future Aspirations and Podcast Ideas
• 32:57 The Journey of Calling and Education
• 38:03 Continuous Learning and Growth in Ministry
• 42:08 Faith and Knowledge: The Depth of Understanding
• 49:53 Balancing Authenticity and Success in Leadership
• 50:15 Family Dynamics in a Pastoral Role
• 59:02 The Adoption Journey and Family Values
• 1:05:21 Looking Ahead: Future Episodes and Engagement

Transcript

Christopher Swing (00:01.752)
Welcome back to Faithful. I've got my co-host Ian here again with me and we're gonna do something a little bit different this time. We have decided to introduce ourselves to you. We've introduced a lot of interesting guests already and felt like it was time to bring some information along with the faces that you're traveling with and so.

Ian Stamps (00:01.766)
Welcome back to Faithful. I've got my co-host, Neem, here again with me. And we're going to do something a little bit different this time. We have decided to introduce ourselves to you. We introduced a lot of interesting guests already and felt like it was time to bring some information along with the faces that you're traveling with.

Christopher Swing (00:31.456)
I'm just glad to have Ian here and interested to see where this particular episode goes.

Ian Stamps (00:31.635)
I'm just glad to have you here and interested to see what this particular episode is. Yeah, I think this is going to be fun. I listen to a lot of podcasts as do you. And it's always good to hear the interviews that you do, that we've done together, that podcasts do. But I think one of the sometimes neglected is interview the actual interviewers and hear their story and how they've come to this place.

Christopher Swing (01:00.87)
And you get a chance to reflect on your own journey and your own leadership. it kind of builds that relationship, for lack of a better word, with a listening audience. So you know who these people are, the experiences they've had. So Chris, you've had a bunch of experiences. You've had a number of leadership challenges and family challenges. And you've lived this neat life so far. I've been a part of it for the

Ian Stamps (01:00.882)
And you get a chance to reflect on your own journey and your own leadership. that kind of builds that relationship, for lack of a better word, with a listening audience. So you know who these people are, the experiences they've had. So Chris, you've had a bunch of experiences. You've had a number of leadership challenges and family challenges. you've...

lived this neat life so far. I've been a part of it for the last number of years. And let's just talk through your background, your experience, how you've gotten to this place that you are, where you are now sitting in this room, interviewing these leaders from around the world for the sake of these listeners. So let's go back to college. You studied here locally at Eastern Illinois University.

Christopher Swing (01:30.926)
and let's just talk through your background, your experience, how you've gotten to this place that you are where you are now sitting in this room interviewing these leaders from around the world for the sake of these listeners. So let's go back to college. You studied here locally at Eastern Illinois University and you are a big EIU fan.

Ian Stamps (01:56.175)
And you are a big EIU fan. You wear a lot of blue, a lot of royal blue. You and your wife both. You're very supportive and energetic about campus, and you're still involved. You're friends with a number of the folks there. So tell us about your time at EIU. How did those years of foundational education kind of set you up for some of the success that you've had?

Christopher Swing (02:22.712)
Yeah, so like every college student, I was pretty traditional. I moved to Eastern after two years of junior college. I had a teacher. I won't name her, but she used to attend our church and said that I would never make it out of junior college, which was interesting when she started showing up at our church because I was like, I don't know what to say.

Ian Stamps (02:22.768)
Yeah, so like, yeah.

Christopher Swing (02:49.88)
But I did mail her my MBA once I eventually graduated with it, just as a good measure, I would say, to close the loop on that. As you should. That's a good move. So I moved to Eastern, had a great experience there. I definitely wasn't the best student, I would say.

Ian Stamps (02:59.439)
As you should that that's a good move. So so I moved to Eastern had a great experience there. I definitely wasn't the best student I would say.

Christopher Swing (03:12.332)
You know often we joke us entrepreneurs joke about how the sea level students employ all the A level students. And I qualify under the sea level students strategy. I think I might have had a little bit better GPA than that, but in general I was there to enjoy and to learn and. Learning in my mind didn't correlate with taking tests and.

Ian Stamps (03:12.37)
You know, I often joke, sometimes I joke about how the C level students

Ian Stamps (03:20.786)
And I'm qualifying through the C level student strategy, I think. I might have had a little bit better GPA than that, but in general, I was there to enjoy and learn. And learning, in my mind, didn't correlate with taking tests. And the metrics that most of the professors that I had used were

Christopher Swing (03:42.252)
The metrics that most of the professors that I had used were you had to just be an insane test taker in order to get the top grades and that was never really that important to me. I'd already learned what I was gonna get out of the subjects before we got to the point of the test and I knew I wouldn't fail the tests or do poorly on them but I wasn't gonna sit there and just try to cram information so that way I could.

Ian Stamps (03:48.851)
you you had to just be an insane test taker in order to get the top grades. And that was never really that important to me. I'd already learned what I was gonna get out of the subjects before we got to the point of the test. I knew I wouldn't fail the test or do poorly on them. But I wasn't gonna sit there and just try to frame information so that way I could regurgitate it back to the test. Like that wasn't the purpose of my trip around the sun.

Christopher Swing (04:11.648)
regurgitate it back to the test. That wasn't the purpose of my trip around the sun during those days. And it would also have gotten in the way of my social life, which was very important to me during the college years. I spent a fair bit of time. I had a great group of friends. I'm a traditional in that.

Ian Stamps (04:19.25)
And it would also have gotten in the way of my social life, which was very important to me during the college years. I spent a fair bit of time. had a great group of friends. I'm a traditional in that I started only going out on Fridays and Saturdays. then by the time I was at the end of my senior year, think I was going out like Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday.

Christopher Swing (04:36.366)
You know, I started only going out on Fridays and Saturdays and then by the time I was at the end of my senior year, I think I was going out like Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, just to make sure we rounded out the week. We enjoyed each other's company and there's probably, you know, five or six of us that pretty regularly hung out. But the teaching at Eastern was great. You know, I remember professors that.

Ian Stamps (04:47.495)
just to make sure we rounded out the week. We enjoyed each other's company and there's probably five or six of us that pretty regularly. But the teaching at Eastern was great. I remember professors that were world class in their knowledge and their ability to teach us. The one thing I will say, looking back was the technology advancements that were happening out in

Christopher Swing (05:03.416)
were world class in their knowledge and their ability to teach us. The one thing I will say, you know, looking back was the technology advancements that were happening out in the world were probably beyond what Eastern was providing at the time. But I think that was pretty common of most institutions. And the reason behind it was they were really focused on us understanding like how it worked.

Ian Stamps (05:16.53)
probably beyond what Eastern was providing at the time. But I think that was pretty common of most institutions. And the reason behind it was they were really focused on us understanding like how it worked. And when you operate a black box of accounting software, a lot of things happen, but you don't really know how it works necessarily. And so their focus was, if you know how to make the entries and know what it's supposed to do,

Christopher Swing (05:31.23)
And when you operate a black box of accounting software, a lot of things happen, but you don't really know how it works necessarily. And so their focus was, hey, if you know how to make the entries and you know what it's supposed to do, that if you're operating a piece of software, it just makes it that much easier and you can figure out what was wrong. I walked into my first job at United graphics from there and.

Ian Stamps (05:46.983)
that if you're operating a piece of software, it just makes it that much easier. I walked into my first job at United Graphics from there and was very overwhelmed because I stepped in as the leader of their accounting department and had had no real experience up to that point. But they believed in me and without any troubles, we kind of turned that ship.

Christopher Swing (06:00.046)
was very overwhelmed because I stepped in as the leader of their accounting department and had had no real experience up to that point. But they believed in me and without any troubles, we kind of turned that ship. I started there in 2003 and by the time we got married in 2007, or sorry, 2006, I was...

Ian Stamps (06:17.202)
I started there in 2003 and by the time we got married in 2007, or sorry, 2006, I was in a GM training program. So I was being trained to be the next general manager for that business, which was kind of what gave me that first opportunity to say, hey, there's people that...

Christopher Swing (06:30.018)
you know, in a GM training program. So I was being trained to be the next general manager for that business, which was kind of what gave me that first, you know, opportunity to say, hey, there's people that believe in you to do things that you're not capable of doing. And so I think that was, that's probably the most common theme throughout.

Ian Stamps (06:46.309)
or even you to do things that you're not capable of doing. And so I think that was, that's probably the most common theme throughout all of my experiences. And I'm pretty sure I've probably said it before on this, but it's that I never had the experience or was ready to do any of the jobs that I've received over the years. that goes back to that job and then.

Christopher Swing (06:55.054)
all of my experiences and I'm pretty sure I probably said it before on this, but it's that I never had the experience or was ready to do any of the jobs that I I've received over the years. that goes back to that job and then continued into my days at Pinnacle Foods where I went as a, you know, I was an accounting guy from

Ian Stamps (07:15.996)
is a pinnacle foods where I went as a, you know, was an accounting guy from.

Christopher Swing (07:24.898)
What I would call a job order costing environment where you you throw a bunch of paper together. You know exactly how much you put in. You know what you sold it for. You know the cost of the paper and you can figure out OK did I make money or did I not make money? Well when you're dumping does onto a line thousands of pounds at a time and the line never stops, it's a lot harder to figure out. Am I making money or am I not making money? And and so you know that.

Ian Stamps (07:51.057)
And so, you know, that second guy that I had was

Christopher Swing (07:53.006)
That second job that I had was actually a cost analyst for Pinnacle Foods for the Lenders Bagels line. And it really gave me the ability to see, the education that you got was sufficient for what you're trying to accomplish. And I was able to do that work. And shortly thereafter, I became the plant controller for that business, which was about $120 million at the time.

Ian Stamps (07:55.507)
Actually, the cost analyst for Pinnacle

Ian Stamps (08:02.404)
You know, it really gave me the ability to see, hey, the education that you got was sufficient for what you're trying to accomplish. And I was able to do that work. And shortly thereafter, I became the planning controller for that business.

Christopher Swing (08:21.75)
And then 18 months later, I became the senior cost manager for Birds Eye Vegetables North America in addition to that facility. And so I was over about 1.4 billion and we were investing somewhere in the 65 to 95 million in capital annually into that business. So pretty, crazy adventure. And then I was in a nonprofit meeting with a friend of the founder of Vantage and

Ian Stamps (08:24.69)
Senior cost manager for Virta vegetables in North America in addition to that facility in Soho.

Ian Stamps (08:34.899)
Somewhere in the 65 to 95 million in capital annually into that business. So pretty crazy adventure. And then I was in a nonprofit meeting with a friend of the founder of Vantage and she introduced me to A &I network in December of 2010, December of 2011 and I started here in January.

Christopher Swing (08:50.83)
She introduced me to Ann. I met with Ann for about a month in December of 2010. No, December of 2011 and I started here in January of 2012. started as a CFO in 2012, 2018 I became the president and COO and then in 2023 is when I became the CEO.

Ian Stamps (09:03.026)
and start as a CFO in 2012, 2018, and became the president and CEO and then in 2023, is when I became the CEO. So there's this interesting pattern that shows up pretty easily in your professional experience and repeats itself. You start this job, you don't necessarily

feel prepared for it. You don't really know everything about it because how could you? You haven't done it before. But relatively quickly, you've caught up, you're up to speed, and not only are you surviving, you're thriving. And quickly, you're getting promoted, you're on a GM track, you're getting promoted into these different levels. So what is it about you? What is it about the industry that, whether it's character qualities or

whatever you get to answer that causes that, that very quickly you've learned, you've got your feet underneath you, you now know what you didn't know before, you've asked the right questions, and to the point where everybody around you has seen this, they've acknowledged, hey, you're being really successful, you're a hard worker, whatever, and they begin to promote you. What are the factors that went into that? Is it just the nature of the industry that you're in? Is it you?

that these are your character qualities or a combination of both? Talk to us about that.

Christopher Swing (10:37.422)
So I would love to tell you that it's this insane amount of integrity and all the wonderful things that everybody likes to originally. You're so awesome. Yes. But I'll tell you that the one thing that's unique about me is I have a sense of humor and I know accounting. And that is not very common. And I probably just offended someone.

Ian Stamps (10:46.866)
just because you're so awesome. Yeah.

Ian Stamps (10:59.283)
Your wife?

Christopher Swing (11:01.26)
You're listening to me, including my wife and many others. And it doesn't. And I'm not trying to take away from that. But I will say that that's that social aspect that I got from Eastern. Because I'll tell you, when I was in high school, I had friends, but I was not as social as I was after I left Eastern. And in addition to that, I'm a Midwest guy, so I have the hard work ethic.

I also have this weird ability to align with and build passion around causes. And it doesn't even have to be like, you know, better the world causes, like even just the fact that, you know, we employed thousands and thousands of people and.

Ian Stamps (11:32.53)
also have this weird ability to...

Ian Stamps (11:40.915)
And it doesn't even have to be like, you know, better the world causes like even just the fact that, you know, we employ thousands and thousands of people and they needed me to show up for them to do a good job. So that way they can come and do a good job. Like, it's just the basic things. And then beyond that, I've just been really lucky.

Christopher Swing (11:56.322)
They needed me to show up for them to do a good job so that way they could come in and do a good job. Like it's just the basic things. And then beyond that I've just been really lucky. And you know. I might just have favor you know like I I think there's a lot that we could unpack in that scenario itself but. For.

Ian Stamps (12:10.07)
and you know I might just have favor you know like I think there's a lot that we can unpack in that scenario itself but sure for someone who didn't you know I didn't grow up with a silver spoon I didn't have a ton of money as a kid

Christopher Swing (12:25.3)
Someone who didn't you know, I didn't grow up with a silver spoon I didn't have a ton of money as a kid my parents weren't you know state senators or or elected judges or anything like that, so I didn't deserve any favor I think that's probably the one thing that also has caused me to to just have an inordinate amount of faith that

Ian Stamps (12:31.005)
My parents weren't state senators or elected judges or anything like that. So I didn't deserve any favor. I think that's probably the one thing that also has caused me to just have an inordinate amount of faith that is somewhat unwarranted, but I just have had a lot of luck.

Christopher Swing (12:51.658)
is somewhat unwarranted, but I just have had a lot of luck.

Ian Stamps (12:56.155)
Yeah, things have things have clicked, you know, luck tends to favor hard workers. You know, inspiration comes when you put your rear end in the seat and do the hard work. It's interesting how those things are correlated. So you do have some industry realities that are contributing to that. You've got a relational dynamic. I think that's super important for for leaders to understand that no matter the business you're in, it's a people business, no matter

what you're dealing with, even in the accounting world, which you wouldn't imagine. You think that's an Excel spreadsheet world, and you're looking at cold hard data and numbers, but in reality, that's a people business. And if you can develop those relational skills, which you did, then that enables you to maneuver within the career field and move up into the right, the direction we wanna go in the career field. And then you've got some good mid.

you shout out to the Midwest, well done for doing that. Some Midwestern hard work ethic, solid foundational values. But on top of that, what I appreciate from my chair, which we'll talk about my background in a bit, from my chair of acknowledging, there's something else at play here. There is this reality that exists above and beyond me that

seems to be showing favor, guiding, helping along the way, giving wisdom to make good decisions. And you've been the glad recipient of that favor and you've shown gratitude in response to it. You haven't abused that as one who is your personal friend. You do that well. You handle those blessings and that quote unquote luck with integrity. You never presume it, but when it's shown, you take advantage of it and you

You take those steps that it affords you. that's, there's such an inspirational thing, I think, for leaders who want to be successful and who want to do these great things with their organization or whatever it might be. These are the factors of success right here. So Chris, you're like the poster child for that in that sense, that you've combined these things together of the things you can control, trying to leverage the things you can't control.

Ian Stamps (15:19.574)
so that you can take those steps forward professionally and even personally. And because of that, you've had some pretty great experiences.

Christopher Swing (15:30.168)
Yeah, without a doubt. mean, if I could give blessings to people, you know, I would give them, as a matter of fact, you actually witnessed this the other night. We were talking to one of the kids at the church, kids, young man at the church. But to me, he's like a kid. He's a young guy. And I was like, if I could give you maybe even just one of my experiences.

Ian Stamps (15:45.511)
Yeah, yeah, but to me she's like a kid he's a young guy and I was like if I could give you maybe even just one of my experiences and if you get some level of success on that because I don't know which particular

Christopher Swing (15:56.046)
And if you get some level of success out that because I don't know which particular one along the way really calls me to have the success that I have. I'm like, it's worth taking a chance because it was the same thing we were talking in book club on Sunday. And, you know, one of the things that I struggle with at times is, you know, you can support an organization and you can.

Ian Stamps (16:05.618)
I guess we're taking a chance because it was the same thing we were talking in book club on Sunday. And one of the things that I struggle with at times is you can support an organization and you can do it secretively so that way.

Christopher Swing (16:24.214)
You know, do it secretively so that way nobody really knows what's going on. And no matter how you do that, you still get such a dopamine shot from writing those checks that when you do it the next time you start to question yourself and you say, so am I doing it because it's the right thing to do or am I doing it because there's nothing better than knowing that they need that support? And it's so meaningless to us, but it's so meaningful to them.

Ian Stamps (16:29.794)
And no matter how you do that, you still get such a doubling shot from those checks. yeah. That when you do it the next time, you start to question yourself and you say, so am I doing it because the right thing to do or am I doing it because there's nothing better than knowing that they need that support? And it's so meaningless to us. Yeah. But it's so meaningful to them. I mean, I can go on and on about.

Christopher Swing (16:53.324)
I mean, I could go on and on about our African mission or Eastern Dominican Christian mission. You those organizations are organizations I support and they're it's it's amazing the work that they can do with so little where it costs us so much to do the same thing here in the US. The cultural differences that contribute to that and just the different realities that exist between a developing nation and the West.

Ian Stamps (16:55.995)
mission or Eastern Dominican Christian mission. Those organizations are organizations I support and it's amazing the work that they can do with so little or it costs us so much in the same thing. Yeah, the cultural differences that contribute to that and just the different realities that exist between a developing nation and the West, specifically the US.

it's overwhelming to see, all right, this this amount of money X number of dollars here, basically is worth very little, it gets it doesn't get as much. But you take that same amount of money and you plop it down in Ghana, or in the DR. And this is life changing amounts of money here that that to us, it's not even going to really make a discernible difference there it that that's going to change a generation or two.

which is why these things are so valuable. again, leveraging that success like you have. yes, there are perks that come with that. There are benefits that come with that. But doing what you can to leverage that for the sake of others. That, hey, I've been privileged. I've been blessed. Therefore, I want to do all that I can to bless the people around me and even on the other side of the world to do this because why would I not want to share these good blessings with other people?

And that's been one of the themes, I think, even in previous episodes of this podcast, we meet with these incredibly successful, wealthy people and all they do is talk about others. All they do is talk about what they're doing for the sake of this group or that group, that organization. I mean, this is their life. They light up when they talk about what they're doing for other people. It's tremendous. So the same factors, Chris, have been true, not just for you professionally, they're also true for you personally.

So you've got a strong network of friends. You've got a lovely family. So at what point in that history that we just walked through with you, when did Kelsey come into play? You're a lovely wife and how did that connection happen? You tell us about that. Yeah, so I had the opportunity to meet Kelsey.

Christopher Swing (19:10.594)
Yes, so I had the opportunity to meet Kelsey Walls at Eastern and we. You know connected in multiple classes my. Last semester of the NBA was her first semester. I believe is how it worked and.

Ian Stamps (19:18.054)
connected in multiple...

Christopher Swing (19:31.566)
You know we did so we were on a group together in a marketing class where we had to start a business and develop a business plan in order to do that and in that class only one group got an a. We worked with our group and build this amazing PowerPoint presentation. I saved it to a jump drive.

Ian Stamps (19:32.018)
It's a, we were on a group together.

Ian Stamps (19:42.482)
In that class, only one.

We worked with our group and built this amazing PowerPoint presentation. I saved it to a jump drive, turned the computer back into Eastern because at the time we didn't own computers. Right. Right. Got home and plugged it into my desktop and realized that there was nothing there. So I went back to Eastern to get it off the laptop and they're like, no, as soon as you close it, it wipes everything off.

Christopher Swing (19:55.326)
Turn the computer back into Eastern because at the time we didn't own computers and got home and plugged it into my desktop and realized that there was nothing there and So I went back to Eastern to get it off of the laptop and they're like, no As soon as you close it like it wipes everything off the laptop

And so I literally re recreated it, you know, in order for us to get a great and and I'm not saying that like Kelsey's CPA firm is better than the other CPA firms in the area, but there were partners from other CPA firms that weren't on our group. And so they absolutely got bees in that class for that particular project. Just saying. you're not biased. I'm not biased at all. can tell you in that class they got to be. Yeah.

Ian Stamps (20:14.148)
And so I literally re-created it, you know, in order to get it created. And I'm not saying that, like, Kelsey's CPA firm is better than the other CPA firms in the area, but there were partners from other CPA firms that weren't on our group.

And so they absolutely got B's in that class for a particular project. saying. Yeah. You're not biased at all, but I can tell you in that class they got a B and Kelsey got an A. Yeah.

Christopher Swing (20:43.936)
And I can tell you that my wife had a lot to do with the fact that we got an A and now I'm super proud of Kelsey. She's a an amazing accountant and really takes care of her clients. Well, she's very well intentioned and so we met it at Eastern. We were both in in different relationships at the time.

Ian Stamps (21:03.364)
Okay.

Ian Stamps (21:07.886)
in different relationships at the time and we actually didn't talk until a couple years after we had left school.

Christopher Swing (21:10.542)
And we actually didn't talk until a couple of years after we had left school. And I got a I don't remember if it was an email or a phone call. Basically, one day asking if I want to grab some lunch and so I'm sure we splurged and went to Subway, you know, and met for lunch, met for lunch. And that was in July of 2005. And I'm.

Ian Stamps (21:21.586)
Basically one day asking if I wanted to grab some lunch and so I'm sure we squished and it was a subway. Yeah, yeah. Met for lunch. for lunch and that was in July.

Christopher Swing (21:39.438)
mean, we pretty much were inseparable until we got married in 2006 in August, so.

Ian Stamps (21:45.747)
Man, so let's just do a shout out to Kelsey and to the other bold women out there who took the initiative and initiated contact with the man, because, you know, Chris is a good looking dude, he's a successful dude, he's kind and nice, but to have Kelsey say, that's the one, I want him. So shout out to you, Kelsey. Good job. We're all grateful.

Christopher Swing (22:08.802)
That's the one. I want him. So shout out to you, Kelsey. Good job. We're all grateful that you, you mercifully loved him and have turned him into the man that he is now.

Ian Stamps (22:15.25)
that you you mercifully loved him and have turned him into the man that he is now. We're grateful for that and the number of years. So this is 20 years for you then coming up, right? Wow. Well, congratulations in advance. At some point, we need to have her on the podcast as an interview because she's got, again, quite a professional background and story as well. So you have one of the funniest.

Christopher Swing (22:25.102)
So this is 20 years for you then coming up, Wow, well congratulations in advance. At some point we need to have her on the podcast as an interview. Because she's got, again, a professional background and story as well. So you have one of the funniest, goofiest daughters I have ever met. She is a delight and lights up whatever room she's in. She has everybody in her life.

Ian Stamps (22:43.997)
goofiest daughters I have ever met. She is a delight and lights up whatever room she's in. She has everybody in her life wrapped around her tiny little pinky and rightly so deservedly so. So talk to us about Lecia and how all that came about because this is I know the full story that takes much longer than what we have time for now. I it's a tremendous account of how

Christopher Swing (22:55.342)
and rightly so, deservedly so. So talk to us about Lysia and how all that came about because this is, I know the full story that takes much longer than what we have time for now. It embeds a tremendous account of how God works and how he lines things up. So talk us through the adoption.

Ian Stamps (23:12.582)
God works and how he lines things up. to talk us through the adoption.

Christopher Swing (23:18.606)
Yes, I can't give you the nth degree because we could be here all day. But in general, the basis of it comes from a mission trip to the Eastern Dominican Christian Mission in Higway in 2012. And that set us on a path to

Ian Stamps (23:32.722)
and that set us on a

Christopher Swing (23:36.654)
host her. We hosted her in December of 2015 through the mid part of January of 2016 and she returned back to China. She was in the Dongguan, you know, orphanage and in September of 2016 we picked her up and she would have been...

Ian Stamps (23:52.275)
and in September of 2016 we picked her up and she would have been...

Ian Stamps (24:04.882)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so she just turned 18. She is currently in eighth grade because when we brought her here, she had no English skills. And so we took her to this interview, which was interesting. The teacher was like, what color is this marker?

Christopher Swing (24:05.158)
Yeah, nine and so she just turned 18 She is currently in eighth grade because when we brought her here she had no English skills and so We took her to this interview which was interesting, you know and the teachers like what color is this marker and she was like I have no idea what these people are saying to me and

Ian Stamps (24:26.066)
she was like, I have no idea what people were saying to me. And then they picked up a different color. And they're like, what color is this marker? And she's just kind of sat there like, I don't know what I have to say. And eventually they're like, we're thinking maybe we should start in kindergarten. And Kelsey and I looked at each other and we're like,

Christopher Swing (24:31.31)
Then they picked up a different color and they're like, what color is this marker? And she just kind of sat there like, I don't know what I'm supposed to say. And eventually they're like, we're thinking maybe we should start in kindergarten. And Kelsey and I looked at each other and we're like, yeah, that seems reasonable. She's Asian and so she's really small. She's still probably only four and a half, a little over four and a half feet today. But like you said, she's totally a joy.

Ian Stamps (24:46.611)
Yeah, yeah sure she's Asian and so she's really small she's still yeah But like you said she's totally a joy she is very well behaved

Christopher Swing (25:00.884)
She is very well behaved with great mannerisms. She loves people, which is, you know, it's always fun to be around people who love to be around other people. And she does, she does have a little bit of the ability to.

Ian Stamps (25:17.349)
And she does she does have a little bit of the ability to work the crowd and so she can pull kind of the best out of everybody. Yeah, it's been a great experience. She again, I said she lights up every room because she smiles. I don't think I've ever seen her where she wasn't actively smiling.

Christopher Swing (25:26.702)
to work the crowd and so she can pull kind of the best out of everybody. yeah, it's been a great experience.

Ian Stamps (25:43.155)
I remember early on, so I had just started at the church when you guys brought her home for the final time. like flights were delayed, there was all kinds of stuff with you coming in. don't even think we had met yet, but I knew there was this family in the church that was doing this with this little girl from China and how cool that was.

Christopher Swing (25:57.35)
My flights were delayed, there was all kinds of stuff with you coming in. don't even think...

family in the church that was doing this with this little girl from China and how cool that was. pretty early on, I would guess maybe the first year or two, Elysia was in some, I think it was like a Christmas something or.

Ian Stamps (26:12.914)
pretty early on, I would guess maybe the first year or two, was in some, I think it was like a Christmas something or she was with the rest of the kids up on the stage on a Sunday at church and they were singing. And in those early days, again, she did not know English. She sang very loudly, but she didn't really know the words very well. But in that particular song,

Christopher Swing (26:23.372)
She was with the rest of the kids up on the stage on a Sunday at church and they were singing. And in those early days, again, she did not know English. She sang very loudly, but she didn't really know the words very well. But in that particular song, the only word she knew was Jesus. So she would kind of mess up and mouth through all the other words, but boy, when they...

Ian Stamps (26:43.187)
The only word she knew was Jesus. So she would kind of mess up and mouth through all the other words, but boy, when they got to that word, she would yell the name of Jesus really loud. And the whole room, I mean, you've got hundreds of people, you know, flowing down their face. was just, I think she won the heart of the church just in that one little song that...

Christopher Swing (26:54.51)
she would yell the name of Jesus really loud and the whole room. You've got hundreds of people. You've got flowing down their face. I think she won the heart of the church just in that one little song that hears this little girl who's had this rough background and now is in the States with this loving family and look at what they've done in the short amount of time they've had with her. They've already taught her the most important.

Ian Stamps (27:11.674)
Here's this little girl who's had this rough background and now is in the States with this loving family and look at what they've done in the short amount of time they've had with her. They've already taught her the most important thing in the world. She knows who Jesus is and she can't even say other words, but she certainly knows him. from that time on, I gotta tell you, I've been a big fan of you and your family because you're getting some things right.

Christopher Swing (27:23.924)
in the world. She knows who Jesus is. And she can't even say other words, but she certainly knows him. And from that timeline, I got to tell you, I've been a big fan of you and your family because you're getting some things right. as you know, in the leadership world, in the business world, entrepreneurs, all that, there's not a lot of, sadly, there's not as many who get it right as should get it right.

Ian Stamps (27:41.179)
as you know, in the leadership world, in the business world, entrepreneurs, all that, there's not a lot of, sadly, there's not as many who get it right as should get it right. There's a lot of selfishness out there. There's a lot of self-serving and it's all about them. So give me a couple takeaways, Chris, of your career. You've done these incredible things. You've had all this great experience. You've got this wonderful family, all these friends.

Christopher Swing (27:53.038)
There's a lot of selfishness out there. There's a lot of self-serving, and it's all about them. So give me a couple takeaways, Chris, of your career. You've done these incredible things. You've had all this great experience. You've got this wonderful family, all these friends. I'm blessed to be one of those. So if you could use a couple of takeaways in terms of here's a couple of lessons I've learned. This is, here's what I now know.

Ian Stamps (28:10.818)
I'm blessed to be one of those. if you could, just a couple of takeaways in terms of here's a couple of lessons I've learned. This is, here's what I now know beyond the shadow of a doubt. What would that be?

Christopher Swing (28:22.67)
be on a shadow of a doubt. would that be? I think the couple things that come to mind are, you know, first of all, you have to be willing to take a step in faith. And if you wait for that perfect moment where you have it all figured out, like you've missed the opportunity. And then I think the other side of it is, you know, when I was younger,

Ian Stamps (28:45.65)
think the other side of it is, you know, when I was younger, networking...

Christopher Swing (28:51.048)
Networking wasn't really that important to me. But when I met Anne, the founder of Vantage, you know, she really instilled in me the value of networking. And through my many, you know, nonprofit, you know, volunteer experiences, I've learned so much about business and about getting along.

Ian Stamps (28:54.61)
But when

Ian Stamps (28:58.547)
she really instilled in me the value of networking and through my many non-profit volunteer experiences I've learned so much about business and about getting along. I figured now how to...

Christopher Swing (29:19.618)
figuring out how to do the hard stuff when everybody's like, my gosh, well, how did we end up in this situation and how do we get out of it? You just end up learning through those processes. And I think without all that volunteering, I wouldn't have been as successful as I am either.

Ian Stamps (29:21.234)
I would do the hard stuff when everybody's like, my gosh, how did we end up in this situation and how did we get out of it?

Ian Stamps (29:31.676)
just end up learning through those processes.

Ian Stamps (29:42.385)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I think you should start a podcast, Chris. I mean, you've got some lessons that you've learned that people need to hear. I think maybe you should start a leadership podcast. I mean, maybe you could call it faithful and you could integrate faith and leadership and business and relationships and all that. I think people might benefit from that. What do think? Well, I really like the name and I'm pretty sure.

Christopher Swing (29:46.446)
I you've got some lessons that you've learned that people need to hear. I think maybe you should start a leadership podcast. Maybe you could call it faithful and you can integrate faith and leadership and business and relationships and all that. I think people might benefit from that. What do you think? Well, I really like the name and I'm pretty sure you're the one that came up with it. That may be true.

Ian Stamps (30:06.578)
That may be true. Yeah, that is possible. Yeah, I just shooting random thoughts. You're like, Oh, I think you should just call it this. I mean, I have I'm loaded with opinions. They might be nonsense, but I have opinions about most things. They're ignorant most of the time, but I have them. No, I think

Christopher Swing (30:11.24)
As I was just shooting random thoughts and you're like, I think you should just call it this. And I'm like, okay, that sounds great.

Christopher Swing (30:24.91)
They're ignorant most of the time, but I have them. No, think this is part of why we're doing this, And it gets back to kind of what you said earlier, and that is, first of all, we have a few gray hairs. It happens, unfortunately. For all you 25-year-olds that think it won't happen, it will happen. It's coming. And to be honest, after some of the...

Ian Stamps (30:46.17)
Yeah, it's coming. Yeah. And to be honest, after some of the life stats that I've seen lately.

Christopher Swing (30:51.55)
life stats that I've seen lately in the 25 to 44 range. Like, I'm kind of glad to be out of that group almost. Yeah. Older. I'm not old. keep telling.

Ian Stamps (30:55.699)
Like, I'm kind of glad to be out of that group. Yeah, I don't mind being old at this point. Older. I'm not old. I keep telling myself that. But older, I don't mind it. I like life at 45 better than I did at 25. Yeah, I really do. Yeah. So let's dig into some of your history, too, because you have some interesting experiences that I

Christopher Swing (31:11.138)
Yeah, for sure.

So let's dig into some of your history too, because you have some interesting experiences that I don't think people would otherwise know. And I'm sure that some of the folks that go to church with us probably don't even know and haven't experienced, because they just don't have the one-on-one time. In a church with multiple hundreds, it's pretty difficult to really have that super deep relationship with every person.

Ian Stamps (31:23.503)
And I'm sure that some of the folks that go to church with us probably don't.

and

Christopher Swing (31:41.614)
You're not the person that runs around going, look at me, look at me, here I am and here's all the information you could ever want to know about me. So, well, wherever you want, but definitely, where'd you go to college and how did that prepare you for your career?

Ian Stamps (32:00.754)
How did that prepare you for your career? Sure. I attended, for undergrad, I attended a small private Christian college called St. Louis Christian College. So I grew up in the St. Louis area on the Illinois side in the Metro East. And it was the only Christian college that I knew existed. I didn't know they were really a thing. our church had been affiliated with that. I grew up attending church and

my parents, my grandmother, all faithful church people. And at some point in the middle school, junior high-ish age, I came to a place of faith, understanding who the Lord is. And right out of high school, right after I graduated, I felt this sense of, in the Christian world, we call it

calling, the sense of calling to serve in vocational ministry, to work for a church, to do pastoral things. What that would look like, I would have no idea. And so I went to this college and I didn't know anybody there. I just walked onto campus and started classes and very similar experience to you. I loved the education I got. I learned so much. You get introduced to a world.

of information and knowledge you didn't know existed. And you develop relationships with your professors and they become your mentors for that season and develop great friendships. I have friendships today, 30 years later, almost 30 years later, that are still strong. I was texting this morning with the guy who lived across the hall from me in that dorm who was the best man at my wedding.

and we're setting up our next breakfast together. And we worked together for a time. And so I had this great experience in school, learning and growing and much like you, it did not prepare me adequately to be successful professionally, because I would argue college isn't designed to do that. College is designed to give you the foundational knowledge. It cannot give you the skills to do everything. That's not its point. You kind of have to do that.

Ian Stamps (34:24.932)
and implement what you've learned. So I started right out of college at this, I did a couple of internships during college years. And then right out of college, started preaching full time in a little country town, little country church, sweet people. My wife and I are both from the St. Louis area. So that was quite a culture shock for me. She loved it. It was a bit of a challenge for me to

You know, everything closed at two o'clock and there's nothing to do. The only place to go is Casey's and which, you know, God bless Casey's is wonderful. but yeah, I, served there. I learned kind of the ropes of my field. I learned what to do, what not to do, how to write a sermon, how to preach, how to lead a meeting, how to oversee staff, how to deal with criticism. you just kind of learn those things by doing those things.

And then over time that certainly expands and I was able to move back to the St. Louis area, again, to my home area. I lived 10 miles from where I had grown up and served a church there for the next decade. And it grew as very rapidly growing larger church and it was a wild ride there for all that time. I got my master's degree while I was there.

and leadership because I was overwhelmed. I had a staff of 27 and almost 2,000 people coming to our church on a normal weekend and I didn't know what I was doing so I needed to learn and grow and a loving mentor of mine said, you are in over your head, you need to go and get some education. So I did and that was really beneficial.

It did some stuff online, commuted in for a couple of years to a Christian university in Cincinnati that was designed for professionals like me. I wasn't going to be a full-time grad student or anything like that. So I was already established in my career by the time I did ongoing educational stuff. After being there for a little over 10 years, I shifted gears a little bit and

Ian Stamps (36:47.975)
went into a different flavor of the industry and planted a new church. And our family and one other family moved to the greater Boston area, which is very, very unchurched. 1 % of the population is evangelical Christian. And we lived in a beach town, which for a Midwestern country bumpkin like me, that was awesome. I got to see the ocean every single day and eat seafood. It was great.

My morning walks, I walk to the beach and watch the sunrise every day. I didn't get that experience in the Midwest, but had a great time, started this church from scratch with a handful of people and got it going. And then we began to have some health issues in our family back here in Illinois. And we can go into that as much as you'd like, Chris, you can decide that. And we actually had to move back and came back to Illinois.

and cared for some family until their passing and then ended up here at Christmas Church for the last now almost nine years and he and I have been buds ever since then. So that's the the jet tour through it. Yeah so that's really interesting you know as you

Christopher Swing (38:03.822)
Yeah, so that's really interesting. As you were talking about your continuous growth through the early part of your career, especially being at a big church, how do you do that in a way and continue to grow? One of the things that I think most people miss about you is you are...

Ian Stamps (38:25.554)
Listen.

Christopher Swing (38:30.122)
So ingrained with continuous learning and I'm not just talking about like formal learning in a classroom, which you love to do as well, but Doctor Ian stamps that is I kind of refused to use that terminology because I knew him before he was a doctor but

Ian Stamps (38:30.332)
So in...

And I'm not just talking about.

Ian Stamps (38:39.41)
a doctor. That's right. It boy it has a ring to it doesn't it? I kind of refuse to use that as you that's right. But seriously though, there's

Christopher Swing (38:53.164)
But seriously though there's there's a lot of value to that and there's value to that inside of the business world and so you know is that come natural to you is that something you kind of force yourself into did it come from that time frame when you really felt like you were over your head you know give us some gut check on that.

Ian Stamps (38:57.587)
inside of the business world. And so, you know, is that come natural to you? Is that something you've kind of forced yourself into? Did it come from that timeframe when you really felt like you were over your head? You know, give us some gut check on that. Yeah, I think there's a bit of it that's natural. I've always been a good student. I'm a nerd, self-professed nerd. I like to learn. I like to know stuff. I like to grow.

Christopher Swing (39:19.912)
I'm a nerd, self-professed nerd. I like to learn, I like to know stuff, I like to grow. So I've always continued, even just on the formal sense, I've always continued that. But even the informal sense of whether it's conferences, reading books, having mentors, asking the right questions to the right people, seeking out those who know what I don't know and saying, can I buy you?

Ian Stamps (39:26.522)
So I've always continued, even just on the formal sense, I've always continued that, but even in the informal sense of whether it's conferences, reading books, having mentors, asking the right questions to the right people, seeking out those who know what I don't know and saying, I buy you lunch and ask you, I've got 10 questions and I will pay you for your time. Please, will you help me?

Christopher Swing (39:45.952)
lunch and ask you, I've got 10 questions and.

Ian Stamps (39:52.983)
So there's just some natural curiosity and desire to learn. I want to know everything I need to know because I get paid, I get held accountable for making big decisions with limited information in short periods of time that affect a whole lot of people. And I don't want to take that lightly. And that's true in any industry. In any body in leadership, you've got to make hard decisions.

limited information and a short amount of time. So I want to know as much as I can possibly know so I can make wise decisions so that the people that trust my leadership, that are impacted by it, are benefiting from it. They're blessed by it instead of they have to endure the dumb decisions that this guy makes and we just kind of have to put up with it. I never wanted that to be the case.

And I still remember how it felt to be in over my head and you struggling to keep your head above water, whatever imagery you want to use. And I hated that feeling. I hated feeling like I was drowning because we were experiencing success and had grown so quickly. We just didn't know what to do. You know, we're hiring people left and right. We're spending money left and right. We're building buildings. We're doing all kinds of stuff, but it felt random and chaotic.

Christopher Swing (40:57.962)
you

Ian Stamps (41:19.234)
and I didn't know what to do next at any given moment. So I had to set about to learn stuff because I didn't like how that made me feel. And I really learned surround yourself with people who know more than you. Because if I'm the smartest guy in the room, I need to find a new room. So you get some people around you that you know, you love, you trust, who are very good at what they do, and then let them do their job. those things combined, they kind of tend to line those things up.

I've since then been surrounded by incredible leaders and wonderful, godly men and women who love the Lord, love the church, and want to serve and want to do a good job at this. And I just get the privilege of sort of pointing them in the right direction now and making sure everybody's all lined up.

Christopher Swing (42:08.336)
So I want to push a little bit further because

You know, for those of us who have really amazing experience and have really unique knowledge and running businesses and whatever, one of the intriguing things for me about you and probably one of the reasons that I really enjoy being around you is just a real serious depth of knowledge of Christ and of our religion and of our faith and not just knowing the religion and

Ian Stamps (42:31.794)
real, serious depth of knowledge of Christ.

Ian Stamps (42:40.936)
and not just knowing the religion and not just...

Christopher Swing (42:43.35)
and not just knowing the faith, but having the faith. And so, you know, because of your role in the church, obviously some of that is dictated, but I can tell you that it goes way beyond that. know, give us some idea of, you know, when did the Ian the pastor become

Ian Stamps (42:46.712)
And so, you know, because of your role in the church, obviously some of

It goes.

Give us some idea of when did the pastor become Ian the student. Because I can tell you from my personal experience being around Ian, what he knows is not something the average pastor knows. It's a desire to know Christ on another level.

Christopher Swing (43:13.344)
Ian, the student and you know, because because I can tell you from my personal experience being around Ian, what he knows is not something the average pastor knows. It's a it's a desire to know Christ on another level. I mean, even to the point of some Greek and some Hebrew and extensive studies. So anyways, give give us a little feedback there. Yeah.

Ian Stamps (43:31.731)
I mean, even to the point of some Greek and some Hebrew and extensive studies. So anyways, give us a little feedback. Yeah, you know, I think there's there's some moving pieces to to that question that that kind of overlap. One, you know, if if somebody says they believe that God is real and Jesus Christ is.

Christopher Swing (43:49.675)
One, two, three.

If somebody.

Ian Stamps (43:59.143)
God's Son who has come to save sinners like us, if that's legitimate, wouldn't you want to know everything you can know about that? If the God who is real is actually the God revealed in the Bible, and we believe that he is, then I want to know as much as I possibly can about him. If he's really that fantastic as laid out in the Bible, I want to...

I want to know Him because He deserves my devotion, He deserves my worship, He deserves everything about my life because everything that I have is from His hand. He's been gracious and kind and loving and forgiving, so merciful. How could I respond with, you know, you're just going to be mildly important in my life. God has changed my eternal destination, infused my

life however long or short it may be with purpose and meaning. All of these blessings have come from him. How ridiculous would it be to say this is just going to be moderately important in my life. So I've always wanted this to be really important because your faith dictates everything. What you believe determines what you do and what you don't believe determines what you do. That's just that's a reality for anybody whether it's got a religious nature to it or

Christopher Swing (45:04.103)
you

Ian Stamps (45:22.262)
whatever it might be, whatever you believe about faith, religion, God, the universe, your moral values, what you believe about all of those things dictates the decisions you make, the relationships you have, the decisions that really are guiding you and the lives of everybody around you. So I always wanted to take that seriously and be authentic in that. because I've met people who have claimed to be Christian.

and probably many of our listeners have had this experience. They've claimed to be Christian, they claim to be church people, very religious, but you interact with them and they're not. They're not great folks and you don't want to be friends with them and they're behind the scenes, they're just hypocrites, they're liars or these character flaws come out. Not saying Christians have to be perfect, we all know that we're not, but if you're gonna claim these truths as being true about you,

Christopher Swing (46:03.879)
you

Ian Stamps (46:21.968)
then there ought to be something that lines up with that. Integrity would demand that. But I think to overlap with the professional world, I had this experience years ago because of the success we had had at this large church that there's a conference that exists every year. Your church has to be a certain large size to even get invited to it. And it was like this moment of success for us. Like I had arrived.

that my wife and I got this invitation to come. I'm the pastor of the church and it's for the pastor and his wife. And it was in January every year and it was somewhere south in the warm, tropical sorts of areas. And it's this week long thing at five star resorts and everybody who's anybody that in my industry that you would know who they are, they're there. And I'm the peon that doesn't belong, that's just getting invited.

Christopher Swing (47:03.687)
you

Ian Stamps (47:21.58)
And I went a number of years in a row, always had a great time and developed friendships over that. But I'm in a room with 150 guys and I'm one of the smallest churches represented in the room. So these are the guys who've had way more success than I have. And I interacted with them. And my takeaway from many of them was, I don't want to be like that when I grow up.

It felt judgy, felt mean on my part, but just interacting with him, it's like, don't like these people. I don't want to have that attitude because I just had a 30 minute conversation with this guy and I don't like anything that came out of his mouth. I don't like his heart. I don't like how he's thinking about this stuff. This is not the kind of person I want to be. That's not the kind of marriage I want to have. That's not the kind of dad I want to be.

Christopher Swing (48:03.484)
you

Ian Stamps (48:20.24)
So that kind of reinforced for me what was already kind of building internally of I want to be authentic in this is meeting people that were at the upper level of this game and going, yeah, this isn't real for them. You're a professional and you're successful and I don't want that. I would rather be genuine and authentic in these realities of my faith.

and not set that aside in the name of some sort of empty form of success. ever since then, that's been 15 years ago, ever since then, I've tried to figure out how to blend those two worlds together. How can you be authentic and genuine in your faith and ambitious and successful and to do that in a right and healthy and godly way that's not empty and meaningless and takes advantage of people.

Christopher Swing (49:15.509)
And that's not that easy, right? I mean, I think most of our listeners would agree that

That is a difficult balance to have.

Ian Stamps (49:23.098)
The temptation is always there, isn't it? you, because the people that are listening to this podcast and those who have had these levels of success are in positions where they absolutely can make decisions that affect other people negatively, but they'll personally benefit. And it is it is always a temptation to to make it all about you and to utilize them and all of that for your own personal gain and not really genuinely care about them. That's a real thing.

Christopher Swing (49:27.022)
people that are listening to this podcast and those who have had these levels of success.

Ian Stamps (49:53.419)
And we just don't want to be that, which is where the faithful idea comes from. We just want to be faithful to the things that we're called to, the things that are important without becoming this nasty version of myself that the 25-year-old version of me would want to punch in the mouth. I don't want to be that. And it's a daily battle to not be that.

Christopher Swing (50:15.956)
So you've had the pleasure of being married for a quarter of a century.

Ian Stamps (50:16.134)
So you've had the.

Yeah, a few months from now, it's 25 years. Yeah.

Christopher Swing (50:22.222)
So tell us how you and Jody got together and like what that process looked like when did she enter into your world?

Ian Stamps (50:30.896)
You know, it was in the latter half of the last century, the last millennia when we met in the 1990s, in the way back when. I'm one year older than she is in school. So only about four months older than she is by dates, which for that four months of the year, she readily reminds me that I'm so old. But I was a year ahead in school. my freshman year in undergrad, you

doing all the stuff you do as a freshman and making friends and going to class and doing all that. Well, I also did some work with admissions to recruit students for the next year. And I still remember, in fact, I have the picture. When you walked into the admissions office at the college, there was this wall on the right that had stapled up to it the pictures of guaranteed incoming students.

And Jody was one of those students. Both of her parents had gone to that same college and she lived 10 minutes from campus. And her dad was very involved, always very generous with the school. And she had already committed to come as a student. So I saw her picture every single day and I thought, man, I bet she has a great personality and she looks like she's super talented and wow, she's pretty.

Christopher Swing (51:44.874)
you

Ian Stamps (51:58.867)
So I knew she was coming to school. The summer between freshman and sophomore year, I traveled for the school to represent it at different weeks of camp and conferences around the country. And one of my buddies, the guy I was texting with earlier, who lived across the hall, and in fact that summer he was a roommate of mine, and we traveled some together to these conferences. He had gone to high school with her.

a year ahead of her in school. And we were, he and I were walking through the food court of a mall in St. Louis and she was walking the other direction carrying a dress. That night was her high school graduation and she was carrying her graduation dress she had just picked up. And they saw each other obviously and recognized each other and hugged, you how are you? And he introduced me to her. And again, I recognized her because I know the photo and all of that.

So we talked there. It was a nothing meeting for her. For me, it was awesome for her. She was like, I don't know who that idiot is. And then a couple of months later, I'm at one of these conferences representing the college and her church attended that conference. So she was there all week and I was there all week with a couple thousand other people. And we saw each other.

we interacted and we kept interacting that week and I kept finding her on campus and would wave at her and go over and talk to her. And by the end of that week, I had asked her to go on a date with me when my summer travels were over and a year after that we were engaged and nine months after that we were married. So we were married for my last year of college.

Christopher Swing (53:44.519)
you

Ian Stamps (53:55.577)
And now 25 years later, here we are still going strong, four kids in and you know, the rest is history as they say.

Christopher Swing (54:06.538)
So one of the things that I think always intrigued me about you is we're not, you you're in kind of a messy business, I would like to say. The church world, you know, even from my seat, just being an elder with you, at times, you know, church is a messy business. But one of the things that always

Ian Stamps (54:10.044)
and truthfully

Christopher Swing (54:31.308)
you know, touch me about you is how strongly you defend and support and protect your family. And that's really just been something that always was visible, though. mean, you've never had to use it. But for the people who know you like, we know that you have this. Invisible protective barrier on your family and

Ian Stamps (54:32.082)
Sheesh.

Ian Stamps (54:41.628)
Yeah. That's really just been something that always was visible though. mean, you've never had to use it. No. But for the people who know you, like we know that you have this invisible protective barrier around your family. And that it's really, it's quite serious. Yeah. You know, in, in, my world, which is a very small church world bubble,

Christopher Swing (55:01.484)
and that it's really, it's quite serious.

Ian Stamps (55:11.154)
Messy is the right word to use. Again, every industry is a people business. That's certainly true with church. Churches are filled with people. They're led by people. It's all about people. And from a pastoral perspective, we see people at their best. We're there officiating their wedding. We're there in the hospital when their baby's born and praying for them. We see people at their...

Utter best, we're baptizing new believers and watching them grow in their faith. It's so exciting. At the same time, we also see them at their worst. So we're there counseling them through their divorce when their marriage dissolves. We're there. Again, I've been doing this a long time. So a lot of experiences. I can be with you in the hospital when your baby's born one week.

Christopher Swing (55:48.682)
you

Ian Stamps (56:08.37)
and I'm with you in the funeral home the next week when your baby hasn't survived. So I've seen you at the highlight of your life and at what I hope is your lowest moment because you've endured something no parent should ever have to endure. When people are nasty and fighting and relationships are toxic. So we see some ugliness, like the dark underbelly of reality. This is people's everyday life and we get the privilege.

and I have to keep reminding myself it is that, of helping people navigate and walk through that kind of stuff. But if you're not careful, you get drawn into their toxicity, you become dysfunctional too. The job's never finished, like I don't get to clock out. So if something goes down at three o'clock in the morning with Chris's family and he calls, I'm gonna pick up the phone. And if something, if he has this health issue and he's at the hospital,

I'm going to be with him. It doesn't matter what time of day it is. That's just the way that this goes. So because of that, it could dramatically impact in a negative way the health of your marriage, the time you spend with your kids. It can really affect that. Not to mention the reality of workaholism and we're doing good and noble things. I work for Jesus for crying out loud. Don't you want to put in some extra hours and do all that?

So the realities of how my field works lend themselves to some pretty unhealthy things. So you have to be really diligent to protect your wife, protect your kids, and you have to have clear boundaries. And we learned that. My wife's been very clear about that all along. She's fiercely protective of me. If you want to say...

Christopher Swing (57:48.327)
you

Ian Stamps (58:03.068)
something negative about me. Just know that you've made her an enemy for life and you don't want to mess with her. And my kids are probably going to be in that category too. But it's the same thing. You sometimes in my field, pastor's wives get criticized and pastor's kids get criticized because everybody sees their life. We live our lives very publicly. Well, that can equal criticism for them all. So I have to shield them from that.

So they don't know everything that happens in church world. They don't know everything that gets said to me or about me. They don't know about every decision that I have to make. They don't know who's mad at me on any given day or anything like that. Because if they had to walk that, all of that with me, that's just unfair to them. And everybody does that in their industry to some extent. If you have a bad board meeting, you don't go home and bark to your kids about it. least I hope you don't.

Because if I go home and badmouth coworkers or church people, whatever, just to make myself feel better, what happens on Sunday when my wife and kids see those people? Now they're not able to have an authentic experience in church because they're looking across the room at somebody who said something nasty about me. And so they just don't know that kind of stuff. So we just shield them and fiercely protect them.

Yeah, if you want to make me an enemy for life, harm my family in some way and it's on. And we'll dance outside.

Christopher Swing (59:38.779)
So I don't want to lose sight of one of the other things that we have in common and he has multiple kids but but one of those happens to be adopted. Now he didn't have to go to China to pick his up. He got to drive across town pretty much.

Ian Stamps (59:51.826)
Bye.

Ian Stamps (59:55.635)
Yeah, yeah, ours was a private adoption with it was a friend of a friend. You know, we had always said, you know, we've got three biological kids and then one adopted. And we'd always said we would never say no to a kid in need. You know, our family loves babies. We love kids. And we from day one wanted to have a bunch. And now we've had some issues and miscarriages and all kinds of stuff.

Christopher Swing (59:57.134)
private

Ian Stamps (01:00:23.506)
in that journey, but we always knew if the opportunity came up to adopt, we would do it. And out of the blue, in 2012, our family was standing in a souvenir shop in Jacksonville Beach, Florida, and my wife's cell phone rang. And she answered it, and a friend of ours was on the line and said, hey, I know you guys have talked about adoption before. Would you be interested in adopting a two-year-old girl?

Now, no one but us and God know that behind the scenes, Joni and I had had conversations about if we could pick, what would we pick? Well, our oldest child is a daughter, then we have two sons. So we knew if we're going to adopt a fourth, it better be a girl. Otherwise our daughter is going to revolt. we, we, needs symmetry, OCD. We need to have girl, boy, boy, girl. So we knew we wanted it to be a girl. And we said,

You know, babies are hard. They really are. So what would it look like if we if we adopted a girl that was not an infant and maybe like two years old? We had actually said those words and then we get a random phone call. Would you like to adopt a two year old girl? And I can still see Jody's face. In fact, we've gone back to that souvenir shop with our daughter and taken pictures. I can see her in the clothing racks.

on the other side and she's talking on the phone and looking at me wide-eyed and she said and I quote, yes, I need to talk to my husband but the answer is yes. Which was checks you know with with how we operate because she knew the answer already she didn't have to ask the question and and that night we were on the phone with the birth mom from our hotel in Orlando because that we were on the way there for the week and you within a week later.

Christopher Swing (01:02:08.999)
you

Ian Stamps (01:02:20.562)
she was at our house. And that's when I had met this sweet curly haired ball of energy that is now our daughter. month or so later, she moved in with us and we became her guardians. And her biological mom faded out of the picture at her choice to do that. She was very young teenager at the time and had become a Christian through the whole process. It was a really neat experience.

And on Valentine's Day of 2014, so about 19 months later, we went to court and the adoption was finalized. for us in our house, Valentine's Day is adoption day. So we actually take our daughter out for Valentine's Day because that's her day now instead of anybody else's. So she's now been with us. She's getting ready turn 15 and she's been with us and she's two. So she doesn't know life without us. We don't know life without her.

She's an absolute doll. she's, she's us through and through. You wouldn't know even looking at her. You honestly wouldn't know that she was adopted. She looks and acts and speaks just like the rest of us. nature versus nurture right there.

Christopher Swing (01:03:35.256)
Yeah, that's actually so very true. I think if you had lined up your kids and told me that one of them was adopted, I'm not sure which one I'd pick, but I don't think I would pick her. When she was baptized several years ago,

Ian Stamps (01:03:42.33)
Until-

Ian Stamps (01:03:47.379)
Yeah, when she was baptized several years ago, Jody's youngest sister baptized her. So Cora asked her to come and baptize her at our church. And that day, I bet we had 50 people ask if that was Cora's birth mom. And it's not, it's Jody's sister. But they look so much alike, same skin color, same hair color. People, everybody thought it was her birth mom because she

Christopher Swing (01:04:02.826)
you

Ian Stamps (01:04:17.703)
She fits right in. almost like God lined that up that she was meant to be in our family from day one.

Christopher Swing (01:04:24.643)
Crazy. So now you know why I so enjoy hanging out with Ian. He is just a bundle of joy and just an extreme nerd, self-proclaimed nerd. I won't call him a nerd, but he calls him a nerd. Really just as someone who continues to grow in my faith all the time.

Ian Stamps (01:04:38.2)
Yep. Yep. Amen. I'm not offended by it. Yeah.

just as someone who continues to

Christopher Swing (01:04:50.414)
I mean, there's nothing like walking around with an encyclopedia about just about any detail you'd want to talk about. And if he doesn't know it, he's really good at making it up because none of us know it either. And so he can just go on and on. And he's talking about something totally tangential to what we're talking about. But it sounds good because he's got so many details related to it. He could just go on forever.

Ian Stamps (01:04:51.346)
There's nothing.

Just about any...

And if he doesn't know it, he's really good at making it up because none of us know it either. yeah. Yeah. He can just go on and on and he's talking about something totally tangential to what we're talking about. But it sounds good because he's got so many details related to it. The trick is just say it confidently and everybody will just think that you're telling the truth. Yeah, it works. So one of the things that I want to do before

Christopher Swing (01:05:21.462)
So one of the things that I want to do before we get out of here today, and I know this one's a little bit longer than than normal, is I want to I want to encourage you to listen to all of the other podcasts. I mean, we have an insane lineup already of people. And, you know, if you think about the way that we picked this season, which we anticipate to be the first half of this year.

Ian Stamps (01:05:36.893)
an insane lineup already of people. And, you know, if you think about the way that we picked this season, which we anticipate to be the first half of this year, they're all foundational organizations. And so what I, what I meant by that was these are organizations that either by my volunteering and engagement or leadership in, I really have developed as a leader.

Christopher Swing (01:05:49.358)
They're all foundational organizations. And so what I meant by that was these are organizations that either by my volunteering, engagement, or leadership in, I really have developed as a leader. And then what I've done is I've picked the people within those organizations that had an impact on me. And we have.

Ian Stamps (01:06:06.724)
And then what I've done is I picked up the people within those organizations that had an impact on me and we have enough, I mean I'll be honest with you, we have enough people even from those groups we could continue into next year. But like everything good there has to be an end and so at the middle part of this year we will transition into a new season of Faithful.

Christopher Swing (01:06:15.448)
We have enough, I mean, I'll be honest with you, we have enough people even from those groups, we could continue into next year easily. But like everything good, there has to be an end. And so at the middle part of this year, we will transition into a new season of Faithful, which will allow us to open up the doors to other intriguing leaders.

Ian Stamps (01:06:36.092)
which will allow us to open up the doors to other intriguing leaders throughout the country and maybe even the world, see. But people who either have some sort of a faith walk or have the ability to connect with a leadership aspect that they like to experience. But I can't under represent enough the

Christopher Swing (01:06:43.01)
you know, throughout the country and maybe even the world, we'll see. But people who, you know, either have some sort of a faith walk or have the ability to connect with a leadership aspect that we would like you all to experience. But I can't under represent enough the amazing stories that we've already heard through just these first seven episodes.

Ian Stamps (01:07:05.586)
amazing stories that we've already heard through just these first seven episodes. And whether that be founders, we've had two founders already, we've had two missionaries already. I just amazing leadership stories that if you don't get some passion or motivation or a nugget of, I should be doing this, I can't hardly imagine where

Christopher Swing (01:07:12.682)
And whether that be founders, we've had two founders already, we've had two missionaries already. mean, amazing leadership stories that if you don't get some passion or motivation or a nugget of, hey, I should be doing this, I can't hardly imagine you're using your ears. And so I would encourage you to listen to those.

Ian Stamps (01:07:35.954)
Yeah. And so I would encourage you to listen to those. The other thing that we would love to see is an opportunity to interact with you all. And so one of the things that I built is a Facebook page for the podcast. So if you go out and search faithful in the Facebook world, you'll find the

Christopher Swing (01:07:38.774)
The other thing that we would love to see is an opportunity to interact with you all. And so one of the things that I've built is a Facebook page for the podcast. So if you go out and search faithful in the Facebook world, you'll find the album cover that we use for the regular podcast on on Facebook and feel free to leave us information there. We would.

Ian Stamps (01:08:01.874)
on Facebook and feel free to leave us information there. We'd love to interact. One of the things that we've considered as we move into the next phase is we might do it regionally. So we might go into an area and try to interview five or six or maybe more people in particular region just to ease the...

Christopher Swing (01:08:07.566)
We'd love to interact. You one of the things that we've considered as we move into the next phase is we might do it regionally. So we might go into an area and try to interview five or six or maybe even more than that people in a particular region just to ease the travel aspect of this podcast. And so if you're in an area and you have some amazing

Ian Stamps (01:08:26.546)
travel aspect of this podcast. And so if you're in an area and you have some amazing people that you think we should be interviewing, we would love to hear about those. Because we can add those into our converse that Mary had, which I think is over 100. And to be honest, we weren't trying very hard, we just kind of kept adding people to the list. And the reality started to come in.

Christopher Swing (01:08:34.062)
people that you think we should be interviewing. We would love to hear about those because we can add those into our current list that we already have, which I think is over 100. And to be honest, we weren't trying very hard. We just kind of kept adding people to the list. And and the reality started to come in because we only do this once a week, which is still a lot of effort to get it out once a week. You know, we have a lot of people.

Ian Stamps (01:08:54.418)
because we only do this once a week, which is still a lot of effort to get it out once a week.

Christopher Swing (01:09:02.926)
time frame before we get through all of those. the that's pretty much all we had today. I don't know if you have anything else you'd like to add.

Ian Stamps (01:09:05.138)
Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty much all we had today. I don't know if you have anything else you'd like to No, think it was this episode was was your idea. There was such a good idea, I think, just to get backgrounds and information and stories and so that when you hear us ask questions, you'll understand maybe some context of where where those questions are coming from. And it

at some point we'll need to sit down and just drill even further, I think, with Chris and some of his experiences as well. But there's so much behind the scenes there with him, and I'll say with us, just because I get thrown in, lumped in with him, that's fine, that we get to sit across the table from incredibly gifted, talented, successful people.

Christopher Swing (01:09:57.447)
you

Ian Stamps (01:10:02.032)
and ask them a bunch of questions. How fun is that? And we've learned a ton so far and I can't wait to see what's coming, certainly with the rest of this season and then even transitioning into the next one because I know the name's on the list and it's unbelievable that you're gonna get to hear from some of these people. So good things are coming, that's for sure. The other thing that I'll tell you is...

Christopher Swing (01:10:23.63)
The other thing that I'll tell you is I've had a couple of people reach out to me individually and say, you know, when you have Matthew Porter sitting across from you, why don't you ask him this and why don't you ask him that? One of the things that you'll find about Ian and I is we like to do our homework. And so.

Ian Stamps (01:10:41.523)
And so what we tried to do was we tried to ask questions that got you information that's not publicly available to you. If you go out to YouTube or whatever, if there's a question that I had to know the answer to and you don't know why we didn't ask it, it's probably because somebody else did. And our concern was if you wanted to find out that piece of information, you could build this and other podcasts on these people. Because a lot of the people that we're interviewing,

Christopher Swing (01:10:42.346)
What we tried to do is we tried to ask questions that got you information that's not publicly available to you. If you go out to YouTube or whatever, if there's a question you're like dying to know the answer to and you don't know why we didn't ask it, it's probably because somebody else did. And and our concern was if you wanted to find out that piece of information, you could go listen to other podcasts on these people, because a lot of the people that were interviewing.

We're not the only podcast that's covered them and so I would just encourage you you know if you Google them or or go on YouTube and search for their names you'll see their picture and and and you can pick them up there. Thank you for taking the time to follow us thank you for your your interest in what we have to say we work hard to make these valuable for you if there are.

Ian Stamps (01:11:10.428)
We're not the only podcast that's covered that. yeah. And so I would just encourage you, you know, if you Google them or go onto YouTube and search for their names, you'll see their picture and pick them up there. That's right. Thank you for taking the time to follow us. Thank you for your interest in what we have to say. We work hard to make these valuable for you. If there are...

Christopher Swing (01:11:38.144)
ideas or encouragement that you can give us or even you know some constructive feedback we would love to hear that because we want to make sure that it's meaningful for you i hope you guys have a great week and we look forward to having a noon exciting episode next week take care guys thanks

Ian Stamps (01:11:38.226)
ideas or encouragement that you can give us or even some constructive feedback. We would love to hear that because we want to make sure that it's meaningful for you. I hope you guys have a great week and we look forward to having a new and exciting episode. See you all later. Take care guys. Thanks.