Faithful
Welcome to Faithful, the podcast where inspirational leadership meets strategic insight in business. Join us each week as we explore the stories, strategies, and wisdom of industry leaders and visionaries who embody resilience, integrity, and faith in their pursuits.
In each episode, we explore transformative leadership principles, actionable strategies, and the power of faith in navigating business challenges. Whether you’re an aspiring entrepreneur, an established leader, or simply looking for motivation to elevate your journey, "Faithful" is your go-to resource for inspiration and growth.
Tune in to discover how to lead purposefully, cultivate a thriving team culture, and harness your unique vision to make a lasting impact. Let’s embark on a growth, empowerment, and faithful leadership journey together.
Faithful
Resilience in Leadership: Matthew Porter's Journey (with MS)
Matthew Porter's Family Website: https://porterhome.com/
Summary
In this episode of the Faithful podcast, host Christopher Swing engages in a profound conversation with Matthew Porter, who shares his journey of resilience and leadership after being diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis (MS). The discussion delves into the impact of MS on Matthew's life, his transformation into an ultramarathoner, and the importance of family values and personal vision. Matthew emphasizes the role of mentorship in shaping his values and the significance of integrity in leadership. The conversation also touches on the challenges of raising the next generation with strong values and the cost of integrity in both personal and professional life. Throughout the episode, Matthew's insights inspire listeners to reflect on their own journeys and the impact they can have on others.
Takeaways
Matthew's journey with MS has shaped his perspective on life.
Family values and personal vision are crucial for success.
Mentorship plays a significant role in personal development.
Integrity is foundational in leadership and decision-making.
Resilience is built through overcoming challenges and hardships.
Matthew's experiences highlight the importance of empathy in leadership.
Raising children with strong values requires intentionality and effort.
The cost of integrity can be high, but it is worth it in the long run.
Success is not just about financial gain, but about impact and legacy.
Faith can guide personal growth and decision-making.
Sound Bites
"We will leave you an inheritance."
"Integrity should just be a given."
"I don't want to strip that away."
Chapters
00:00 Opening Reflections and Gratitude
01:03 The Intersection of Leadership and Personal Journeys
02:24 Living with MS: A Personal Story
03:22 The Impact of Family on Personal Growth
05:40 Vision and Values: Aligning Personal and Professional Life
09:43 Overcoming Family Expectations and Building a Business
14:05 Motivation from Family and Societal Expectations
16:21 The Shift in Education and Career Paths
18:10 Aligning Vision and Values with Daily Life
21:00 Commitment to Curing MS and Community Engagement
23:40 Empathy and Leadership
25:43 The Human Equation
28:23 Living with MS: Family Dynamics
30:46 Raising Resilient Children
34:11 Instilling Values in the Next Generation
39:41 Navigating Life's Challenges with Humor
40:08 The Foundations of Success: Discipline and Drive
42:35 The Role of Character in Leadership
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Missions:
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Christopher Swing (00:00)
Welcome to Faithful, the podcast where we explore the intersection of leadership, faith, and impact. I'm your host, Christopher Swing, president and CEO of Vantage Surgical Solutions. Through thoughtful conversations with business leaders, missionaries, and change makers, we uncover the principles that guide their work and connect them to timeless wisdom. In season one, we're diving into the foundational organizations and experiences that shape my own leadership journey. Whether you're a leader in business,
faith or your community, this conversation is packed with inspiration and practical wisdom. Thank you for joining me on this journey of discovering how faith and leadership intersect in meaningful ways. Let's dive into the episode.
Ian Stamps (00:44)
welcome everybody. Welcome back to the so grateful to have Matthew Porter with us and my co-host Ian here today. has recovered from surgery and is well and capable of being with us. you're going to get an extra dose of excitement today.
Christopher Swing (00:44)
welcome everybody. Welcome back to the faithful. We're so grateful to have Matthew Porter with us and my co-host Ian here today. Ian is recovered from his neck surgery and is well and capable of being with us. so you're to get an extra dose of excitement today.
Matthew Porter (00:44)
welcome everybody. Welcome back to the We're grateful to have Matthew Porter with us and my co-host Ian here today. recovered from neck surgery and is well and capable of being with So you're get an extra dose of excitement today.
Ian Stamps (01:03)
But really, you know, really happy to have Matthew here. Matthew and I, to give you some intersection because this foundational season is about my leadership journey and the people that I met along the way and how I got to where I am. and I crossed paths a few years ago during COVID. We were on a YPO trip, organization that's important to both of us, presidents.
Christopher Swing (01:03)
But really, you know, really happy to have Matthew here. Matthew and I, to give you some intersection because this foundational season is about my leadership journey and the people that I met along the way and how I got to where I am. Matthew and I crossed paths a few years ago during COVID. We were on a YPO an organization that's important to both of young presidents.
Matthew Porter (01:03)
But really, really happy to have Matthew here. Matthew and I, to give you some intersection because foundation of season is about my leadership journey and the people that I met.
I got know each other.
Ian Stamps (01:28)
And really got to know each other and I got to know his story and I'll tell you it's just humbling for me humbling because
Christopher Swing (01:28)
and really got to know each other and I got to know his story and I'll tell you humbling for me. Humbling because
Matthew is in a state of pain every day and he still gets up and has a great attitude and a desire to be effective for himself and his family and I don't know what is better in a human than that and so
Ian Stamps (01:36)
is in a state of pain every day and he still gets up and has a great attitude and a desire to be effective for himself and his family don't know what is a human than that. And so
Matthew Porter (01:35)
Matthew is in a state of pain every day and he still wakes up and has a great attitude and a desire to be effective for himself and his family and don't know what is a human than that.
Ian Stamps (01:53)
When I put this together, he was at the very top of the list of the people that I wanted to meet with because I'm just so appreciative of what he did for me. I was going through my transaction or getting close to my transaction when I met with him. He was of his support and I appreciate that very much. It helped for us to get through our transaction.
Christopher Swing (01:53)
When I put this together, he was at the very top of the list of the people that I wanted to meet with because I'm just so appreciative of what he did for me. I was going through my transaction or getting close to my transaction when I met with him. He was offering of his support and I appreciate that very much. It helped for us to get through our transaction.
Matthew Porter (01:54)
put this together. He was at the very top of the list and the people that I wanted to be with because I'm just so appreciative of what he did for me. I was going through my transaction or getting close to my transaction when I met with him. He offering of his support and I appreciate that very It helped.
for us to get through our transaction.
And now it's actually got a company and I'm sure we'll get into as part of this conversation. But welcome.
Ian Stamps (02:17)
And now he's actually got a company, and I'm sure we'll get into that part of this conversation. But welcome
Christopher Swing (02:17)
And now he's actually got a company and I'm sure we'll get into that as part of this conversation. But welcome
Ian Stamps (02:23)
to the show.
Christopher Swing (02:23)
to the show, Matthew.
Matthew Porter (02:24)
Thank you for having me. Thank you for the kind words.
Ian Stamps (02:27)
one of the things that I always think about when I think about you there's this part of your life where, in 2014, you are diagnosed with MS. talk about and in a lot of your interviews about your daughter and how you became an ultramarathoner.
Christopher Swing (02:27)
So one of the things that I always think about when I think about you is, there's this part of your life where, in 2014, you were diagnosed with MS. you you talk about and in a lot of your interviews about your daughter and how you became an ultramarathoner.
And, one of my questions for you is. What do you think the impact and, you know, life has
Ian Stamps (02:48)
And, of my questions for you is, what do you think the impact and you know, life has
ways of funny ways of getting to where we are. if your daughter hadn't encouraged you to start running, like what would the impact of MS be on your life today, comparatively, because you became an ultramarathoner in advance of actually your diagnosis. And I'm sure may not have mattered, and maybe you would have gotten there eventually afterwards. But, just tell us like,
Christopher Swing (02:54)
ways of funny ways of getting to where we are. But if your daughter hadn't encouraged you to start running, like what would the impact of MS be on your life today comparatively because you became an ultramarathoner in advance of actually your diagnosis. And so I'm sure it may not have mattered and maybe you would have gotten there eventually afterwards. But, just tell us like
Matthew Porter (02:59)
If your daughter hadn't encouraged you to start running, what would the impact of MS be on your life today, comparatively? Because you became an ultramarathoner in advance of actually your diagnosis. And I'm may not have mattered. Maybe you would have gotten there eventually afterwards. just tell us,
what do you think that that
Ian Stamps (03:22)
What do you think that
Christopher Swing (03:22)
What do you think that
Ian Stamps (03:24)
ability to be effective and in shape at the time in which you're diagnosed, how did that affect you and maybe your journey with MS? Yeah, I was diagnosed four and half years exactly.
Christopher Swing (03:24)
ability to be effective and in shape at the time in which you were diagnosed, how did that affect you and maybe your journey with MS?
Matthew Porter (03:25)
ability to be effective and in shape at the time in which you're diagnosed. How did that affect you and maybe your journey within this?
was diagnosed four and half years exactly to
the day after my first attempt to go for a run, which was probably running a quarter of a mile, and point zero five segments, starting, stopping, I did the couch to five K if anybody's ever done that. But it's actually how I started doing the couch to five K. And it was actually four and half years later. I walked into that doctor's office and
Ian Stamps (03:49)
I walked into that doctor's office.
Christopher Swing (03:52)
I walked into that doctor's office
Matthew Porter (03:57)
I knew I was going to get diagnosed with MS. There was no doubt. My wife was the ordering physician on the MRI. She was the one that delivered the news to me that I have 38 lesions on my brain and spine. And they, quote, stopped counting. That's actually what the radiological report says. And I knew that I was going to get diagnosed that day. She knew I was going get diagnosed that day. And my MS doctor, who's an amazing human being,
Christopher Swing (03:59)
There was no doubt. My wife was the only physician on
Ian Stamps (04:10)
says and I knew I was like a diagnose that day. She knew I was going to diagnose that day. My MS doctor was an amazing human being
Christopher Swing (04:12)
and I knew that I was going to get diagnosed that day. She knew I was going get diagnosed that day. My MS doctor was an amazing person.
Ian Stamps (04:21)
and actually treats the patient.
Matthew Porter (04:21)
and actually treats the patient and the person, not just the disease,
walked into the office and questioned if he had the right patient in front of him. Because 38 lesions, a lot in the mobility area of my brain and spine, there's not really a clinical explanation of how I'm capable of walking. Realistically, that could disappear in a moment.
and it could have disappeared before I even was diagnosed. But to me, the
The running and the ultra running and the physical fitness are a big portion of why I can do what I can do even at the base level. I jokingly tell people all the time, I'm trying to do the extraordinary today so I can do the ordinary in 20 years. And the ordinary in 20 years is walking my daughter down the aisle somewhere over the next two decades and being there for my grandkids and carrying them.
But if it wasn't for that, if it wasn't for the running, if wasn't for the physical, I don't think I'd walk today. So how do you think, later on in
Christopher Swing (05:16)
So how do you think, later on in
life, I mean, your daughter gave you an amazing gift, right? Didn't feel like it. Don't you call me squishy. I want to be clear. Did not feel like it. I'm positive that's true. Right. But I mean, if you think about it, like how amazing is that that your offspring is probably what's given you the gift and the quality of your life that you've had to this point. I totally you. You say.
Matthew Porter (05:24)
Yes. Didn't feel like it when she called me squishy. I want to be clear did not feel like it.
I've told her, you saved
the quality of my life. And those are the words I use. She didn't save my life. She sure as hell saved the quality of it. And I want quality heartbeats every day.
Christopher Swing (05:51)
So one of the other things that's really intriguing about you to me is you're very focused. we're all successful business people. Matt is another level up from my success. But when you think about all of us, we focus like direct on our business. And so often we kind of neglect our own vision and values for our family. And that's something that's really important to you.
Matthew Porter (05:51)
So one of the other things that's really intriguing about you to me is you're very focused. we're all successful business people. And Matt is.
success when you think about all of us we focus like direct on business so often we kind of neglect our own vision and values for our family that's something that's really important to you
I know you even have a personal website where people could go out and they can find it personal vision and values are how did you get there like what what caused you to get to that
Christopher Swing (06:19)
And I know you even have a personal website where people can go out and they can find it and see what your personal vision and values are. How did you get there? What caused you to get to that point?
Matthew Porter (06:32)
So for background,
two parts. I've almost always had mentors for almost 20 years. I still have a mentor today and I serve as mentors to others. And the other background on this is I'm a computer science mathematician by education and trade. So I have this innate nature that I want to reverse engineer things. And those will come into play to answering how we got here. My mentor came into my office one day.
and our team had just had our annual strategic planning. I was excited and I have this mentor and he's the former CFO of Planner's Peanuts and he was president of 1-800 Flowers at one point and he's this older guy and I'm wanting to impress him about all the work that the team just did and our annual retreat and where we're headed. I'm super excited and I go through it all and he looks at me
And he says, well, how does the mission vision values of your company, Contigix, align with your personal mission vision values that you and your family have? And I start effectively stuttering because I don't have a good answer for this because I don't have a mission vision values for my family. And he looks at me and he says, so what, 15, 20 years you're going to do this. You work 60, 70 hours a week. But for the rest of your life,
and 168 hours a week, we're gonna wing it?
That's an approach. I mean, it doesn't sound like a smart approach, but it's still an approach. And I was just massively cut off guard. And on top of that, I'm now feel slightly deflated because I was super proud of what the team and I had put together. And I was deflated because he was right. And I didn't actually understand that. And I didn't want to live my life like that anymore. So I took a lot of what I done in business.
and convinced my wife that, hey, let's go do strategic planning as a family, just you and me to start with, because our kids were much younger back then. And my enticing on that was, we'll go do this. We'll focus on it. We'll spend the night at the Four Seasons Hotel. We'll get up the next day. We'll go to the spa. We'll get massages. We'll have a relaxing thing. So that was my bribe to get her to do that.
Fast forward two years later and she's like, hey, listen, we've got to do quarterly planning here because we're behind schedule now. And it had nothing to do with Four Seasons and nothing to with the SPOT. And we sat down and put together our mission statement and we put together our values and our vision. And this goes back to the other point I said, besides the mentorship, and that was the engineer me. I'd always heard the phrase, show me your bank account, show me your calendar, and I'll tell you what matters to you.
We looked at our bank accounts and we looked at our calendars and we reverse engineered into the mission statement.
because we saw where we were spending our time, talent, and treasure. And that's what we're talking about when you say those two things. And our mission statement starts off with, we have a debt to those who came before us and an obligation to those who come after. Because service is so ingrained in my family and so ingrained in what we do, my wife and I would not be where we are today if it wasn't for the generosity of others.
We didn't have easy childhoods. We were not wealthy. And we took the generosity of others. And we feel that we have a debt to those that came before us, and we have an obligation to those who come after.
Christopher Swing (09:43)
really cool. So I remember a story. Is it grandma that said that you don't do that you don't start companies? Tell us that story. I grew up fairly modest. Both my parents were union folks.
Matthew Porter (09:44)
So.
I grew up fairly modest. Both my parents were union folks. My mom eventually got
out of the union because she got into management. My dad effectively helped move the union out of the business factory that they worked at before.
And I saw what they went through as union people and saw that that was a very contentious relationship between the workers and the factory owners and the management and all that stuff. And it scared me to death because I saw my parents go on strike and I saw them worry about how do we put food on the table for six kids at home.
And to me, it didn't make sense. I didn't want a customer because that's effectively what employment always felt like to me is it's a customer. 100 % of my income. And when you're hourly, sometimes you're forced to do 135 % of your income, you're forced over time. Sometimes you're only, hey, listen, we only got enough hours for 70%. And you take it as it is. And that always seemed, that seemed like a bad bet to me.
that seemed a nerving bad bet to me. So I started a company, but I'd come from my mom and dad were in a union, my grandma and my grandpa were in unions, both sides of that. mean, how my grandfather and my mom and dad all worked at the same factory at one point, different unions there.
And I'm talking to my grandma one day, we'd started the company, we'd been in it a year and a half, my mom and dad didn't really understand like, hey, I don't get the opportunity to turn off like the customer needs something on my mother's day, I'm gonna have to deal with that. And my mom's answer was, well, I guess you think like you're you're the man like, I was like, I guess I am the man like shaft is the man like she's like, No, no, you're the oppressor. You're the oppressor man.
My grandma took a less volatile approach to that. And she's like, what are you doing? We don't do this. And my question was, what do mean we don't do this? She's like, our family doesn't do this. And because I'm born, raised, educated, have bred in St. Louis, have my own kids here, they're all here for college. love St. Louis. She also said, we don't do that in St. Louis anymore. We don't build companies in St. Louis anymore. And
She was eventually proud of what we had done because of how we ran the company and how we treated our talent. And I took all those lessons from my parents, my grandparents, and how we treat people. I think at that moment in time, there was not a whole lot of dissimilarity between how she felt and how my mom felt because of just decades of experience on bad companies treating people bad.
Christopher Swing (12:22)
So I assume that was motivational. It could be demotivational too, I understand, but like, I don't come from a long line of silver spoons either. And so yeah, I took learnings from my parents, but you know, I still would find things that they had done wrong and be like, okay, so I can't do that. So like we had a grain elevators when I was little.
Matthew Porter (12:22)
So I assumed that was motivational. It can be demotivational too, I understand, but I don't come from a long line of silver spoons either. And so yeah, I took learnings from my parents, but you know, I still would find things that they had done wrong and be like, okay, so I can't do that. So like we had that green elevators when I was little
and we had a fire.
Christopher Swing (12:46)
and we had a fire
and the insurance company didn't pay the claim. And so we lost the green elevators. And when people want to understand my risk aversion, all I have to do is say, go look at that. I can tell you exactly where it came from. It doesn't mean I have complete risk aversion. It just means that I want that extra safety blanket somewhere in between, And so it's just. So maybe the
Matthew Porter (12:52)
when people want to understand my risk aversion, all I have to do is well, look at that. I can tell you exactly where it from. It doesn't mean I have complete risk aversion. It just means that I want that extra safety blanket somewhere in And so it's just so.
maybe
directly to you. Did you feel like that was demotivating for you at the time? Or did you feel like this was your point where it's like, okay, I need to prove to them that this is what I'm doing. And I don't have to be the way that they see it, right? Because I think that was more of the problem than anything else. They felt like, oh, you're gonna be one of those guys that's gonna not take care of your people and not appreciate them and not pay them appropriately and provide them an environment to be effective.
Christopher Swing (13:11)
directly. So do you did you feel like that was demotivating for you at the time? Or did you feel like this was your point where it's like, okay, I need to prove to them that this is what I'm doing in it. And I don't have to be the way that they see it, right? Because I think that was more of the problem than anything was, they felt like, you're gonna be one of those guys that's gonna not take care of your people and not appreciate them and not pay them appropriately and provide them an environment to be effective.
It was motivating.
Matthew Porter (13:40)
It was motivating and over the
years it's become actually more motivating because it forced me to actually understand something that I don't think I did at that time, especially given my lack of experience in the world, my lack of dealing with people. So it was motivating because I wanted to prove myself. I think every kid wants to prove themselves to their parents. They want to know, I don't think anybody thinks about this like directly.
There is this thing of, I want to prove that all that you poured into me was worthwhile. And especially as I become a parent and I've poured into my children and helped them, man, I really understand my parents a lot more. That I want them to know that everything they did for me, even if it was imperfect, because they're human beings like me, it was still appreciated. It became more motivating over time.
for me as I understood that. And it became more motivating when I think back and realize that my parents were high school educated people making their way in the world. And they were on that generational cusp that we have just screwed up in this country the last 50 years, where you were told the only path to dignity in a career had to go through a four year college.
And I see that now more than I did back then. And so for my parents to sit there and say, we've got a son who's rejecting all that we've done, society's rejecting this path of dignity that we think exists by doing a trade, because my parents, they were professionals. They were professionals in a trade. They were seeing that rejected.
So to me, that's the harshness that I've had to realize over the past couple of decades. And it sucks. I'm glad I went through it though. I'm glad that I got to see things from their perspective.
Christopher Swing (15:30)
mean, I don't want to get too deep in this, realistically, I think even if you look at our K through 12 education, it's all designated to create an effective professional employee. there's, you know, think about the fact there's no financial training. I mean, how, how often do you learn about how to handle money? The perceptions in the United States today.
Matthew Porter (15:31)
Correct.
Christopher Swing (15:54)
are so opposite of reality. As someone who's successful, I'm sure you could appreciate that. Like what they teach us of success is these material things that are meaningless to those of us who have attained success. And it's unfortunate that we've kind of meandered, I would say meandered, because it seems like the kids that are graduating today are
Matthew Porter (16:01)
what they teach us of success these material things that are meaningless to those of us who have attained success. it's unfortunate that we've kind of meandered, I would say meandered, because it seems like the kids that are graduating today are
Christopher Swing (16:21)
more inclined to consider trades than they've ever been in the past. And we're seeing a real diabolical shift, I would say, to where
Matthew Porter (16:21)
more inclined to consider trades than they have ever been in past. And we're seeing a real dire halt in the shift, I would say, to where
Christopher Swing (16:30)
the universities are even struggling to hit their numbers because of the fact there's so many people interested in considering alternative paths to individual success, I would say. And it's cost our society a lot. It's cost society a lot. It's cost individuals a lot.
Matthew Porter (16:43)
And it's cost our society a lot. It's cost society a lot, it's cost individuals a lot.
We can all probably find somebody we know that has, hopefully at this point, because I'm 48 years old, they've paid it off. Maybe not, but they've gone through that path of a private institution, private college, they've spent tens of thousands of dollars of money they didn't have, and they don't actually,
Christopher Swing (16:49)
We can all probably find somebody we know that.
Matthew Porter (17:08)
work in that industry of which they went to college for. Because guess what? That was never what they were supposed to do. That was not aligned with who they are. I understand why we did it. I don't understand why it took us so long to react to it. I mean, when I worked at a construction company here, post of my first exit, I remember the numbers. For every five people that left construction, we only had two people enter.
That is not a recipe for long-term success. And I think the numbers have gone down.
Chris (17:43)
Faithful is proudly sponsored by Vantage Surgical Solutions, where excellence meets innovation in advanced healthcare solutions. With a foundation built on integrity, creativity, and commitment, Vantage empowers leaders to shape the future, just as we explore leadership through faith on the podcast. Vantage Surgical Solutions, standing for excellence, leading advanced healthcare solutions.
Christopher Swing (18:10)
So I want to step back to your vision and values for a second.
Matthew Porter (18:10)
So I want to step back to your vision.
Christopher Swing (18:15)
How closely aligned with your pre-visioned values lifestyle are your vision and values? Was this a big change? Was it somewhat similar to what you were doing before? Or is this a major fork in the road, as you guys live your personal lives? I think it was about 80 % that we were.
Matthew Porter (18:31)
somewhat similar to what you were doing before or is this a major fork in
think it was about 80 % what we were
already doing and 20 % aspirational. And so that aspirational part became almost an accelerant in many ways. A good example of this is we have a core value that says calmness and stillness facilitate happiness. And then it says in parentheses, no effing drama. Like I don't want drama. I feel like it's.
It's just a waste of human capital. It's a waste of EQ and IQ and it just takes something away from it. Because of that core value, I've watched myself, my wife, I've watched my daughter, I've watched my boys make decisions about what they're involved in. I watched my daughter as a sophomore in high school walk away from her friend group.
because it was too drama, it too much drama. I have left organizations and boards because it was too much drama. So what it did was it provided a forcing function that accelerated decisions that we were making without thinking. It was almost guardrails for us.
Christopher Swing (19:42)
Soon.
did you develop those before you were diagnosed or afterwards? they have to change? Or have they changed maybe since you originally built your vision and values? have not changed.
Matthew Porter (19:43)
you develop those before you were diagnosed or after? It was before. Did they have to change, or have they changed maybe since your mission? They have not changed. They've not changed at
all. Which is good, because I have the mission statement above my bed.
Christopher Swing (19:59)
good because I have the mission statement above my bed.
Matthew Porter (20:03)
And
my wife went and bought it one day. She had it done by a lady on Etsy and she went and drove to I think Iowa or Indiana and picked round trip in a day and picked it up. if I change that, yeah, it's gonna it's gonna cost more than that Etsy.
Christopher Swing (20:17)
So how has that impacted your walk with MS?
today because I'm a situation where what I choose to do on a daily basis is truly choice.
Matthew Porter (20:21)
Today, because I'm in a situation where what I choose to do on a day-to-day basis is truly a choice, because
I can be in that healthy situation. I look at the first part of that mission statement we have done to those who came before us and the obligations that have come after. And I spend around 40%, 50 % of my time.
Christopher Swing (20:31)
look at the first part that mission statement, and I spent around 40-50 % of my time
on curing MS with the National MS Society. It cost me a lot of time, hell and in charge of it to do such. And I'm doing that knowing that in my heart, and I've actually publicly written about this and publicly stated it, I don't think a cure will come to me.
Matthew Porter (20:42)
on curing MS with the National MS Society. It cost me a lot of time, talent and treasure to do such. And I'm doing that knowing that in my heart, and I've actually publicly written about this and publicly stated it, I don't think a cure will come to me.
Christopher Swing (21:00)
I'm okay with that. think we're gonna see MS.
Matthew Porter (21:00)
I'm okay with that. I think we're going to see MS, the progression from
today to a cure being we're going to see prevention, we're going to see cease of development, progression of the disease, and then potentially a cure. I don't think we're getting to a cure, which is meaning repair, reversal, remyelination, fixing the metabolic functions of the brain that need to occur. I don't think we're getting there. I think we're going to see the disease burn out because of the first two.
So I'm doing all this work knowing that this is probably not going to have a repair possibility for me. Knowing that I hope one day my grandkids, your grandkids, say that MS was an old timer's disease. My point on this is that human history doesn't repeat itself, human behavior does.
lost one of two people left that were still in iron lungs last year for a disease that's been forgotten about because we got to prevention. We got to cease the progress. And I think the same thing is going to happen with MS. So to me, my mission statement of that is that I do that. And the rest of the mission statement, we maximize our life and potential with hard intelligence and grit. We do all this together.
I live that every day. I spend time mentoring and helping people because I'm trying to maximize my life potential. The best way I can do that is to get somebody that probably needs to learn the same lessons I've learned and instead of them going through the experience, I can give them the cheat code and hack and shortcut. Like, hey, this is how it will go down in my experience of what I've gone through. You can choose to go the same path.
And then finally at the end of it, our mission statement ends with the words, you know, mostest. And so it is this word that came about. love you. I love you more. I love you the most. Well, what's after that? I love you mostest. My family and I, my kids, my adult children, we all text each other that word mostest. We own mostest.com. My wife and I have it tattooed on us. She's got the word mostest tattooed on her. I have it on binary in my upper back and the power symbol.
I went with binary on a small tangent because the word from five feet away looks really close to moistest and I didn't think that was appropriate. And also I'm a computer science mathematician geek and I'm, you know, I've had my success in computers. So doing it in binary is a power symbol. This is what empowers me. My family seemed to make a lot of
But I live that mission statement every day. We talk about it on a regular basis. It's the first thing I see in the morning besides my wife. So it's above our bed and it's the last thing I see at night.
Christopher Swing (23:40)
So how has MS affected your leadership?
Matthew Porter (23:44)
Great question. It has absolutely made me more empathetic. It's made me more empathetic. It's made me a better human being. It's also given me the ability to impact people other than those that directly worked for me.
Christopher Swing (23:46)
It is absolutely. For sure. I can see it. I experienced it.
Matthew Porter (24:06)
hate that term worked for because it sounds horrible. It's given me the ability to go help others. And I think for me, the legacy I want to leave is not my name on a building. It's who are the souls that we impacted along the way and who did those souls impact. And to me, that's the heart of leadership. And it's made me a better leader in that way.
I'm, we've talked about this, I'm as hard as it is, and there are days that are worse than others, I am still feel like this is a blessing having this.
There are plenty of people that will never understand that statement or think that it's me trying to put a good face on something that is not good. And I'll go to bed every night knowing that I genuinely feel that and I genuinely believe it. It's also made me less egocentric. I I'm very clear. My tombstone will say husband, father, friend. It will not say leader. It won't say CEO.
it won't say donor, irrespective of what we've done in those areas, what I've done in those areas.
Christopher Swing (25:04)
You have this very positive natural.
Ian Stamps (25:05)
positive, natural,
Matthew Porter (25:05)
positive, national,
outgoing nature to your person.
Ian Stamps (25:07)
outgoing nature to your personality. Very benevolent. I want to help. I genuinely want to help people. Have you always been that way? Is that natural? Was there some sort of critical event that happened before a diagnosis that kind of pushed you along that direction?
Matthew Porter (25:09)
I want to help. I genuinely want to help people. Have you always been that way? Is that natural? Was there some sort of...
It wasn't a single event. I've not always been that way. Big part of that was actually me trying to feel like I had to prove my value and self-worth. For a long time, that was a driving factor for me. And...
It was probably a course of years and a series of events, including the diagnosis that got me to change. I also got to a point where to me, as much as I love computers and I still write code today and still love writing code today, the human equation has become so much more interesting to me.
and the impact that one can have on other folks. I mean, even if I want to get it in this, and think about this in a selfish manner, know, Bob comes in one day, I pay him X dollars to be there today. He performs extremely well. Bob comes in tomorrow, performs at 70%, but I'm still paying 100%. Like, how's that remotely fair? To me, why did Bob go from 100 % to 70 %? It's not like he's malicious.
I want to know how I impact him. I want to know how we make his life better. And I didn't always have that approach. It would have been Bob screwing me over.
But the human equation is much more interesting to me. And the impact that we can have on people. I used to operate out of a sense of fear that I was gonna lose everything. And I do mean everything. I'm not just talking about finances and all that stuff. I'm not talking about my company. I'm talking about everything. And that is just not a point that I wanna live my life anymore.
That is a point of just nonstop constant pain. My wife would say, I would come home, we'd have one customer hiccup. my God, we're gonna lose everything, we're gonna lose the company. And it was, I was putting her on this emotional roller coaster.
Christopher Swing (27:19)
one of the things that you talk about is how you feel blessed even amongst having this disease. And one of the things that, I don't know how to say this right, but one of the things that I always think about is how blessed other folks with MS are because you have this, which is a really crazy thought.
Matthew Porter (27:19)
yeah.
Christopher Swing (27:46)
But I mean, you're out raising money, you're out raising awareness, you're literally running through your pain to give insight into the disease that you have in your body.
What do you think, how has it affected you being married to, your wife's a nurse practitioner. I mean, you have to live with some level of reality every day, right? I mean, how has that impacted your disease state and your mental state? You know, having a...
I mean, you literally have someone to walk alongside you absolutely with your best interest at heart every moment of the day that's capable of supporting you in whatever you wake up with, right? Because you don't know what that's going to be.
Matthew Porter (28:39)
You know, she is one of the strongest people I've ever met. And I say that as somebody who takes on a lot of pain and, by the day to day and with intent at times based upon the stuff I've done. And she knows the reality of the disease. She knows it probably better than most. What isn't mentioned a whole lot is that at the time when I was diagnosed, one of the doctors that she worked with has MS.
still around today. He has MS. They don't work together anymore. So she saw it every day for years working with him.
And that weighs on her. It's a huge weight. I'm sure there are mornings where I'm a few steps slower getting out of bed. it's what happens to you? What happens to you? What happens to all of us? She's running slow that morning. And she might be thinking, OK, is this the day?
I also went from, hey, we think there's something here to a diagnosis and being on disease modifying therapies in about three weeks, which is unheard of. I know people that are fighting two years to get their diagnosis.
two years, spinal taps, MRIs, all this stuff. So it is different from that perspective for me.
and it is harder in many ways and I feel grateful. What doesn't get talked a lot about the disease, unfortunately, is that I'm blessed I don't have to deal with this.
Maybe it's because of how I've always looked at this. The suicide rate for those with MS tends to double every seven years.
Somebody with MS today is one of a two million and yet very alone because the disease impacts each of us in a very unique, different way. And sometimes it does not seem fair or in how it treats us.
I'm blessed. I can walk through the day and because I'm so good at hiding my pain, most people will never know what's going on and other people don't get that benefit.
Christopher Swing (30:17)
I can walk through the day.
So what's it like for your kids?
Matthew Porter (30:26)
So what's it like for your kids?
Part of our delay in telling
the world was because we needed to figure out how we were gonna tell our kids. And we took around 15 months to do that, worked with a therapist. My kids are sequential in age for most of the year.
So we didn't want to have a situation where the two older kids or the oldest kid knew and the youngest kid didn't know where there was disparity between who knew. We also have told them for years that, hey, mom and I, this is before the diagnosis, mom and I are going to be here forever. But the three of you, you guys are bonded together. Like you need to build that. I mean, my son one time picked out.
a thing from home goods that's in a verse from Ecclesiastes and it says, you know, three strands are stronger than one. And he said, I want this because this is me and my siblings. And he was probably 10 years old. So we had the benefit of actually working with a therapist to talk about how we were going to have that conversation with them. We had 15, 16 months of them not seeing anything really change. And yet it still causes fear and concern.
And the pandemic was a big part of that. Because of the therapies I'm on, I effectively don't have an immune system anymore. So MS is caused by a hyperactive immune system. So many of the therapies will actually suppress that immune system in one way or the other through B cell depletion or anything along those lines. So we were in a pandemic. I've got a wife that's working in a clinic. And we're
worried about my health because I have effectively no immune system. So males getting sprayed down, my wife is coming home from the clinic, changing her clothes in the garage.
wiping herself down with disinfectant wipes, taking the clothes that she had on from the clinic, putting them in a bag, immediately in the washing machine, to then going straight to go take a shower, to then take the clothes that she had on from the garage to the shower, to go put them in the washing machine.
There's a weight that comes to this. There's a weight that comes to a disease like this. And my buddy describes it as, perfect that I'm having this, he says, it's like holding out a glass of water, and it's real easy to do for five seconds, and it starts not being fun after a couple of minutes, and then you realize you gotta do it the rest of your life.
So my kids feel that weight. They worry about my immune system. They worry that I'm going to get sick. The two times I got COVID, the first time I got COVID, I was the third person in St. Louis to be on Pax-a-Lint under emergency use authorization. Third person. I went from, I'm running seven miles to six hours later, wondering if I was going to be in the hospital in a ventilator. Cause it happened that fast.
that weight goes on them. And at the same time, my kids are working on the MS Society St. Charles Walk here.
they've seen their father do incredible stuff and have the disease. So we have in our house, when you walk in the front door through the garage, same garage door that my wife had to strip naked in, there is a Leadville poster from, it's actually a three-dimensional wood carving. And you walk in the house, it's right there.
and it's been there since the first time I finished. And so, one day I asked my wife, said, you know, I know I did that, I don't need that constant reminder. And her statement to me is, that's actually not for you. That is for Avery, and Olin. Because I need them to see that no matter what happens, they can still go out and do extraordinary.
Christopher Swing (33:47)
So you're an uber successful guy. How do you raise the next generation in a way that gives them the opportunities to be as successful or live whatever life that they want, but giving them the, potentially even the drive to chase after a dream similar to what you did in building Kandijics, which.
Matthew Porter (33:47)
If you're a new or successful guy, how do you raise the next generation?
the opportunities to be successful or live whatever life that they want but giving them the, potentially even the drive to chase after dreams.
Christopher Swing (34:11)
You just shared with us not too long ago that was outside of the path, right? I mean, from the family. like, how do you raise good kids? Like what, how do you instill those core values and things that you've built around your household into the next generation?
Matthew Porter (34:11)
Yeah.
We talked when my kids are all at home because
they're all in college now, even though they're here in St. Louis at Wash U, we forced them to live on campus away. They need to have their space. Don't let them have their cars. So we, when they were at home, we talked about our mission and our vision and our values on a regular basis. They eventually got involved in our strategic planning, you know, because it was their lives that were impacted by it too. They needed to understand that.
Today, we've been very clear with the kids. I say to them, we will leave you an inheritance. Most of it will come from us making the world a better place. The amount when it comes to money, you need to think about it like the backup parachute as a skydiver.
If you throw it, you will survive, but you will also walk away with a limp probably the rest of your life. We forced our kids to not have individual cars. They had to share a car.
I mean, they all went to private schools where the cost of the tuition was more than a car. And we forced them to do that. They had to negotiate with each other. We put in artificial constructs for them to learn those lessons. I mean, my kids will say this, and this is so weird to say this, and I want to be clear. It feels almost braggadocious to say. They would say, my parents have money, I'm poor.
And for us, the thing that we are giving them is that they will graduate college with zero debt. We also though want to be clear, we did not force our kids into college. I was very clear, especially with my youngest who was undecided his junior year. You have four options. You can go to college. You can go to trade school. You can figure out who you are. And the best way to do that is go be of service. So go take a year off and go to Peace Corps, something like that. We'll reconvene in a year.
or you can join the military.
And when he said, well, what if I don't want those four options? My answer was, well, good news. June 12th, two weeks after your high school graduation, you will move out of my house and I will give you enough money for security deposit and one to three months of rent, but you're going to need a roommate. And he said, well, I don't know if I'm mature enough to make that decision. Like I do this. said, yeah, I don't know if you are either, but Uncle Sam thinks that you're mature enough that at that age, he will train you, pay you and equip you to kill people.
And I think that maturity requires a lot more than getting out of my house.
Christopher Swing (36:47)
Yeah, amazing how that changes everything, isn't it?
Chris (36:52)
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Matthew Porter (37:20)
So we sent my kids to a camp years ago and you know when they were
younger and it was two weeks and the night before we're going to pick them up. So they got to be put on a plane. They're going to be sent back to St. Louis. And the night before I get a call from the camp, the woman running the camp and the woman that owned the camp I have known for years. We did a program through MIT together and she bought this because she bought this camp because she was poor as a kid, like dirt poor. And she's like, I wanted to have a camp.
that I could go to. And so she bought a camp as an adult, as a very wealthy adult. And so we get a call from the camp director and, your kids want to stay another week. And I said, you know, we really want them to come home. We miss them. And we get this, you know, call a couple hours later. Listen, the kids really want to come home. And I said, well, how much is it? they're like this. I was looking at my wife and I was like, so do you want them to stay? She's like, no, it's not about the money. I want them to come home. So.
The camp director goes back to my children and they go, well, what did you say to my dad? They said, well, this and this and this. And we said, it'd this one. My youngest goes, that's too much. She's like, what do you mean it's too much? He already gets the friends and family discount. Like she's like, he's like, you need to go back and propose a different price. So it's now like 11 PM at night. I get a call from the camp director again and she's telling me this story.
And I'm on speakerphone, my wife and I are laying in bed and I was like, like we have to say yes. And she's like, we have to say yes because we've told our kids stick together and everything's negotiable. And I was like, if we say no, we're going to roll back these lessons a decade. and so they were on a Southwest flight. just went online, rebooked it.
Damn it. But my favorite part of the whole trip is my wife planned out for the two boys two weeks, 15 days of clothes and each clothes set is in an individual bag for them for two weeks. They come home. Half the clothes bags have not been opened up or worn. I'm I'm not. This is not a joke.
We're in the car with the luggage. I'm like, what the hell stinks. But half of the bags unopened. My wife's like, I think I'm just going to take it in the backyard and burn it. It's like, what, the clothes? No, the whole suitcase. Because that's been tangent.
I mean there's a couple questions that came up over just listening to the stories for someone to have had the level of success that you have not just in business but in life. With your very successful marriage, successful parent, you've got a good relationship with adult children now, so you've had these years and levels of success.
Ian Stamps (40:08)
of success that you've had, not just in business, but in life. Your very successful marriage, successful parent, you've got a good relationship with adult children now. So you've had these layers and levels of success.
There's a lot of discipline in your stories, a lot of drivenness in your nature. Has that always been the case?
So you kind of been this way since you were a kid. You've always kind of thought strategically along this these lines. It's always been there.
Matthew Porter (40:29)
So you kind of been this way since you were a kid. You've always kind of thought strategically along these lines. It's always been there to me.
Like I wanted to go do that. I was younger. I was more of a balance of, I'm excited for life and everything that has to it. But at the same time, I had this sense of fear. had low self-confidence. I didn't know who I was.
took me probably way too long in life to figure out that everybody's kind of faking it. And on top of that, nobody's thinking about you because they're always worried about what everybody's thinking about them, but always had that drive. I I was writing software at eight years old.
You know, I had sold a piece of software by the time I was 12. Like, I wanted to go actually do stuff. And I like solving problems and I like building. And so to me, that was always what it was about. The discipline, the discipline took a little bit more time. I'm trying to say this and I so appreciate the kind, complimentary words that you all have said about success and all this stuff. It feels almost egotistical and braggadocious.
and this is gonna feel the same way. I relied for too long on just raw intelligence to get to where I wanted to go. that, somebody can get a long way with that.
I also think getting that way is a very lonely way to do things. And I didn't want to do that anymore. And so that drastically changed. I wanted more group intelligence on things. I wanted more group emotion on things. So that has changed. That raw intelligence also allowed me to not be disciplined early on.
And what I've come to learn in the last 20 years is that exhausted itself is that consistency and intensity can accomplish a whole lot more in this world, whether it's just pure success of financials or success of anything than just raw intelligence. And that takes discipline.
Ian Stamps (42:14)
that exhausts of itself is that consistency and intensity can accomplish a whole lot more in this world whether it's just pure success of financials or success of anything than just wrong intelligence.
Matthew Porter (42:35)
that makes sense
Ian Stamps (42:36)
No, that makes perfect sense. In my world, the non-profit faith-based world, one of the ways that we talk about this is what happens when
your talent exceeds your character.
And you've got these very gifted leaders, very, very intelligent, very, very driven, super smart, high EQ, IQ, all of that. They're just nasty people. And you meet them and you go, I don't want to be like you when I grow up, you know, and their success is always limited. They have their day.
Matthew Porter (42:49)
you've got these very gifted leaders, very, very intelligent, very, very driven, super smart, high EQ IQ all of that. They're just nasty people. you meet them, go, I want to be like you when I grow up, you know, and their success is always limited. They have their day,
but it's never a long term day. So talk for a little bit about the role of
Ian Stamps (43:10)
but it's never a long-term day. So talk for a little bit about the role of character,
Matthew Porter (43:17)
characters, who you are as a person, combining with that sense of discipline in your
Ian Stamps (43:17)
just who you are as a person, combining with that sense of discipline and drive.
Matthew Porter (43:25)
eyes. I hope that most people will say about me, Matthew has integrity. Because that integrity means that I'm aligned with what I've said and what I've done. And that to me is what's the most important part of this. That's what I want at the end of the day.
Ian Stamps (43:26)
I hope that most people are saying about me, to Matthew as a temporary...
That to me is what's the most important part.
Matthew Porter (43:42)
That is a reflection of character more than anything else. When somebody is willing to take the pain of doing what is aligned with their character, really truly not just saying it, but actually doing it is what makes the difference. And there are plenty of people that have significant success in any measurement that you can put on it that live unbelievably miserable lives.
Ian Stamps (43:45)
when somebody's willing to take the pain of doing what is in line with their character. Really, truly not just saying it, but actually doing it is what makes the difference. There are plenty of people that...
Matthew Porter (44:08)
I think an early part of my journey from the, you know, really the solo, I'm in a raw intelligence, push this through any way I can, caused a lot of destruction to others along the way. born, raised, educated Catholic. I have an immense sense of Catholic guilt for the damage I did along the way.
And in some ways, I'm, yes, I would love to go back and not have ever done that. I'm also not going to let that tuition go to waste. And so it has changed my future actions. It's changed my current actions. And I hope not just beyond me or beyond me, I hope it's also changed in the way that I mentor and advise and coach people. Because I'm willing to say, let me tell you how I screwed up. Let me tell you how I hurt people.
That is character. To me, that is the character of, listen, I just don't want that to ever happen again, that I'm willing to actually admit how broken I was and currently am.
Ian Stamps (44:52)
is character. To me, that is the character of pain. I just don't want that to ever happen again. I'm willing to actually admit how broken I was in her meeting.
You have this, as you talk about people and business and the things that you've done, many of the concepts that you talk about, even discipline and integrity, character, honesty, brokenness, let me tell you how I've hurt people, that kind of stuff. A lot of those principles, a lot of those characteristics, though not exclusively have a
Matthew Porter (45:05)
You have this, you talk about people and business and the things that you've done. of the concepts that you talk about, even discipline and integrity, character, honesty, brokenness. Let me tell you how I've hurt people, that kind of stuff. A lot of those.
principles, a lot of those characteristics, though not exclusively, have
Ian Stamps (45:33)
maybe a bit of faith-based background to them. That's not true with all people, certainly true with some. So you mentioned you've got this Catholic foundation.
Matthew Porter (45:33)
maybe a bit of faith-based background to them. That's not true with all people, certainly true with some. So you mentioned you've got this Catholic foundation.
Is there some positive sense, you mentioned the guilt maybe as a negative sense, but is there a positive sense in which some of that certainly influenced a desire for integrity, a desire for honesty, that faith matters in the background, foundational elements of life?
Ian Stamps (45:42)
Is there some positive sense? You mentioned the guilt maybe as a negative sense, but is there a positive sense in which some of that certainly influenced a desire for integrity, a desire for honesty, that faith matters in the background foundational elements of life?
We do talk about faith and the construct that God created faith and man created religion.
Matthew Porter (46:08)
I mean, what's the Voltaire quote? know, God made man in his own
Ian Stamps (46:09)
What's the Voltaire quote? God made man and his own...
Matthew Porter (46:14)
image and man returned the favor.
Ian Stamps (46:16)
I've actually even said to my kids multiple times.
Matthew Porter (46:16)
I've actually even said to my kids multiple times,
I think about the way I speak to my dog is probably the way God speaks to humans.
Ian Stamps (46:20)
I think about the way I speak to my dog is probably the way God speaks to humans.
Matthew Porter (46:28)
Like my dog kind of understands what sit means. I mean, she's lazy as can be. So I mean, I think she understands it just looks at me like you're a dummy. I'm not doing that. But we're poor at translating it when it comes to the words, when it comes to what is good. I think we're excellent translators of that. And so to me, that is what the core of faith is.
Ian Stamps (46:28)
my dog kind of understands what sit means. She's the laziest to be so I think she understands it just looks at me like you're a bum. I'm not doing this. more transient when it comes to the words. When it comes to what is good, think we're excellent translators.
Matthew Porter (46:52)
I'm willing, my family's willing, my kids are willing, my wife, she's willing, we're willing to do the stuff that is a line for the better good, even at the pain of ourselves. Not always, we're imperfect, we're human beings, we're so imperfect. And it's a beautiful thing that we're imperfect, and I love that. Many times we're willing to do that hard stuff, and that comes from faith. I mean, we...
Ian Stamps (46:52)
I'm willing, my family's willing, my kids are my wife, she's willing, we're willing to do the stuff that is aligned for the better good of the family, even if we the pain of ourselves. Not always, we're imperfect, we're human beings, we're so imperfect. And it's a beautiful thing that we're imperfect, and I love that. Many times we're-
Matthew Porter (47:21)
We sold Contigix when I did not want to sell Contigix the first time. Our first transaction, I did not want to do that transaction at all. And the reason why we did that transaction, and just to be clear, I prospered from it. I don't want to strip that away. I don't want to not have that be explicitly stated. I prospered. The reason why we did that transaction was because of the values of the company.
Ian Stamps (47:21)
We sold Contegix when I did not want to sell Contegix the first time. Our first transaction, I did not want to do that transaction. And the reason why we did that transaction, and just to be clear, I prospered from it. We don't want to strip that away. Don't want to not have that, be explicitly stated. I prospered. The reason why we did that transaction was because of the values of the company.
Matthew Porter (47:48)
and was one specific value that mattered more than anything else at the time. Rapid accelerated growth and the rapid accelerated growth core value was not about the top line or bottom line. It was about the growth of our people, our stakeholders. And the way we rated that was our talent, our team came before anything else. We were not gonna get our minority shareholders to take the next leap of faith with us.
And that was a failure on my part because I screwed that up along the way. We weren't going to get them to do that next step.
and we needed to honor that core value. So when the opportunity came, what does character say? Character says we're gonna follow the core value. Because the opposite of that is ego and pride. And ego and is, hey, no, no, you're not kicking me out. I'm staying around, even if it means I gotta burn everybody else down. And I'm not gonna honor this core value.
And it sucked and it was painful.
Ian Stamps (48:32)
It sucked and it was painful.
I think people underestimate in all fields the price of integrity. It costs. you're really going to live out your values, there is a cost to that. Now, there's certainly a price tag to not do that. That's far worse to pay. But this is a very real thing to ask the question, what does integrity demand? If you're going to say this, this is what this demands. You don't really have a choice here.
Matthew Porter (48:38)
of integrity, it costs. you're really going to live out your values, there is a cost to that. Now there's certainly a price tag to not do that. That's far worse to pay. But this is a very real thing to ask the question, what does integrity demand? If you're going to say this, this is what this demands. You don't really have a choice here.
Ian Stamps (49:02)
even at least a reasonable logical
Matthew Porter (49:04)
At least a reasonable logic.
Ian Stamps (49:06)
one. But if people can grasp onto that, that's world-changing stuff. This is what integrity demands. Therefore, the decision is made for me.
Matthew Porter (49:09)
That's world changing stuff. This is what integrity demands. there more to the decision than there more? What's crazy to me, I'm probably going to offend somebody listening to
this podcast and hopefully it's nobody in this room, but I'm still going to say it. I do not like when organizations put integrity as a core value. I just do not like that. To me, that's like me saying, hey, you know what my core value is? I convert oxygen and carbon dioxide.
It just feels so much of what we should be doing, foundationally what we should be doing for life and heartbeats and breath, that I don't think it needs to be said. mean, you want to know who had a core value of integrity? Enron. How's that going?
I don't think it should be listed as a core value because you should just have it. The deal with it is though, when you sit there and say that it is so foundational, that means that you're going to sit there and say, I'm going to take pain in the short term when necessary to uphold this, knowing that I'm not going to have potentially that long-term pain. Because I think the lack of integrity is what causes long-term pain.
Ian Stamps (49:51)
don't think it should be listed as a core value because you should just have it. The deal with it is though, when you sit there and say that it is so foundational, that means you're going to sit there and say, I'm going to take pain in the short term when necessary to uphold this, knowing that I'm not going to have, potentially, that long-term pain. Because I think the lack of integrity is what causes long-term pain.
Yeah, absolutely.
Christopher Swing (50:14)
So when you step back and you think about the people who've impacted you along your journey, who are some of the people that come to the top of your mind? Not only who helped you to become who you are, but who helped you to take these different steps and enable your success along the way. So my favorite starting point in this is going to be my...
Matthew Porter (50:15)
So when you step back and you think about the people.
are some of them?
different steps.
So my favorite starting point on this is gonna be my
grandfather, Charles, who I call Popo. Popo went out and bought an Apple IIe computer for me when I was six years old. And depending upon the age of your audience, this is gonna seem really weird when I tell you the next part. My grandma was frustrated and mad because he paid about $6,000 in 1982, 83.
and my grandfather probably made $23,000, maybe $28,000. By the way, those are both before tax numbers. So one's going up and one's going down. So a significant amount of money. And my grandma's words were, when he gave it to me, what is he going to do? Is he going to become a typist? Because that was the term.
I mean, some secretaries, that was a term used at the time, were typists. Not all typists were secretaries. There were just people that typed.
He had that. It pains me that he passed away when I was in high school. So we never got to see that his belief that this was the future for me and for the world would come to fruition. So Popo was a big one.
My uncle who passed away from Lou Gehrig's disease, and I watched him fight at the very end of his life to survive longer than the average for days.
mentors I've had along the way, Howard, was a CFO of Planner Spenance, my business partner, who six weeks after we did our first transaction, really
hammered home one of the biggest lessons that I had refused to learn for decades. This is what I love about the universe, God, whatever you want to call it. If there's an important lesson for you to learn, you will get that opportunity over and over and over again. You just won't like the increase in the cost. And for him, the final thing was six weeks after we sold. We're now a company that has 385 souls working for us.
He is there at the company, I'm not. I sold on Sunday and walked out on Tuesday. He's still there. Six weeks after we sold, he said, never wanted it to get this big. I just thought it'd be you and me and a couple folks. There are 385 people that work at the company now. Why didn't you say something? And he said, you were CEO, chairman, and controller of our holding company. It was your responsibility to ask. Why didn't you ask?
My point on this is that the lawsuit I got into with my minority shareholders, every single problem I've had with people along the way, oftentimes come down to failed expectations. I didn't understand theirs, I didn't give them mine, and I didn't rinse and repeat that cycle. So Craig taught me that lesson.
And he did it in a kind way.
Christopher Swing (53:06)
One of the other questions that comes to mind is...
Matthew Porter (53:07)
Any other questions that come to mind?
Christopher Swing (53:10)
How would your life have been different if you were privileged as a kid?
in your mind. you you came from hardworking folks, right? And I think that's true to who you are kind of today. You know, what would that have looked like if you woke up or were born with a silver spoon?
Matthew Porter (53:28)
I don't want to cast everybody that has a silver spoon in one category. So if I were to put it in the category of I had a silver spoon and where it didn't matter what actually ever occurred, I would be okay financially, even to the point I would be okay financially. And most people would look at me as rich or wealthy.
Christopher Swing (53:30)
Bye.
there
didn't matter what actually ever occurred, I would be okay financially. Even to the point I would be okay financially and most people would look at me as retro wealthy.
So I'll put it into that as the shade on this question. I don't think I would actually be accomplished as much as I am. And I mean that in the business sense. I mean that in the...
Matthew Porter (53:52)
So I'll put it into that as the the shade on this question. I don't think I would actually be have accomplished as much as I have. And I don't I mean that in the business sense. I mean that in the
relationship sense, especially with my wife, my wife is my favorite person. Thirty one years we've been together. I adore love like that person, and she is my favorite person.
We went through hardships together. We went through challenges and growth together. That has bound us. And I don't know if we would have those opportunities to do that.
There is a funny thing about pain to me and the hardships is that pain inevitably can cause significant growth. I often wonder if the only way to grow with this through pain and the same way that a caterpillar basically dissolves itself down to a few cells in order to become a butterfly, which has to be immensely painful. But the pain of the status quo is too much compared to the pain of change.
And I think if I would have grown up in a privileged world where I didn't have to do any of that, I don't think there would have been the impetus for change. And I also wouldn't have understood pain in the same way. Now I am sure there is a lot of challenges that come from those privilege. It's very different. That's not an easy question to answer because there's a lot of challenges that come from living a lifestyle.
Christopher Swing (55:05)
for sure. It's just different, right? It's not it's not a That's not an easy question to answer because there's a lot of challenges that come from living a lifestyle
of the the wealthy and the multi-gen and the expectations that come along with that just It's always intriguing to me what people's perspectives are
Matthew Porter (55:19)
and the expectations that come It's always intriguing to me what people's personal...
Christopher Swing (55:26)
And sometimes they're completely opposite of what I would think they would be, which is why I ask the question. I'm good and comfortable in my pain. Me too. to see my wife put herself through it.
Matthew Porter (55:27)
Sometimes they're completely opposite.
I'm good and comfortable and okay with the way I grew up. I got to see my wife help put herself through
high school and college. I got to see her become the woman she is today. I mean, what a damn gift. And this is a woman whose childhood home through high school and college was actually hit by a drive-by shootings.
We know what being on the public safety system looks like. I am super appreciative for what we have here in this country. I had my final transaction last year. Do I want to pay the taxes? No. Am I going to do it with gratitude knowing that somebody like me did it, therefore that helped me and my family and my wife? And yeah, for me to not pay attention to that and realize that, that is me being.
Christopher Swing (55:53)
I
Matthew Porter (56:16)
just a jerk
and a hypocrite.
Christopher Swing (56:18)
Yeah, you talk about the the troubles or the difficulties in business, but I mean, I know you mentioned on one of your other podcasts, you were basically broke at one point, right? Like, you're an overnight success, just 30 some years in the making. I think so often we take for granted, like, you're here. And yes, you were successful, but just a couple of
Matthew Porter (56:18)
Yeah, you talk about...
You're an overnight success, just 30-some years in the I think so often we take for granted, like, you're here, and yes, you successful, but just a couple of
Christopher Swing (56:41)
wrong turns at the wrong time and this is a very different outcome, right?
Matthew Porter (56:41)
wrong turns at the wrong time. And this is a very different outcome, right? Very, very different outcome. We had to borrow money on a home equity loan in order to buy groceries.
Christopher Swing (56:47)
yet.
The funny part was the company actually had lots of money, but we were growing so fast. And we didn't have private equity, we didn't have shareholders over investing.
Matthew Porter (56:51)
The funny part was the company actually had lots of money on it, but we were growing so fast. And we didn't have private equity and we didn't have shareholders that were investing
money into the company. I was paying myself $22,000 a year. We had...
$36, $37 in our checking account. was it. I took a home equity loan. when I tell people like, hey, by the way, we took a home equity loan and we parked and we did it from a specific bank because we parked in the middle of the parking lot because on one side of it was the bank for which we got the home equity loan. Then we took our three kids and walked past our car to go to the grocery store on the other side to go buy groceries. And yet fast forward 20 ish months.
Christopher Swing (57:14)
tell people like, hey, by the we took the whole equity loan and we parked. We did it from a specific bank because we parked in the middle of the parking lot because on one side of it was the bank for which we got the whole equity loan. When we took our three kids and walked past our car to go to the grocery store on the other side to go buy groceries. And yeah, fast forward 20-ish months
and the whole equity loans paid off and the mortgage paid off.
Matthew Porter (57:39)
and the home equity loans paid off and mortgages paid off.
And we're about to put a deposit down on the house we live in today. But there was a lot of stuff that could have gone wrong.
Christopher Swing (57:48)
Trust me, we tried to cause a lot of stuff. Yeah, it's good to say we're all pretty good at that, aren't we? I mean, like there were times where I looked back and I was like, you know, the house was on fire. I didn't need to bring matches. Or a can of gasoline. That was probably a bad idea.
Matthew Porter (57:48)
Trust me, we try to cause a lot of stuff to go wrong all along the way. We're all pretty good at that, aren't we? I mean, there were times where I looked back and I was like, you know, the house was on fire. I didn't need to bring matches to it. a can of gasoline. That was probably a bad idea,
too.
But it was going back to one of earlier things we talked about. It was a lot of fear.
Christopher Swing (58:13)
Man, I tell you, I am so grateful for you taking the time to do this. You're truly a blessing to me. mean, it's hard to even connect emotionally with how high regard I have for you, just in your willingness to be transparent. I mean, with your...
Matthew Porter (58:14)
I tell you, I am so grateful for you taking the time to do this. You're truly a blessing.
Christopher Swing (58:29)
commitment to get up and do what you need to do every day when it doesn't feel good for your fight, for what you're going through, knowing that it probably won't change your outcome. I think you were pretty clear about that earlier. the significant impact you can have in the world and your willingness to
to take those punches and roll with it.
Super thankful for the opportunity to have met you. And I just appreciate you being willing to share with our team and our listeners. I hope that somebody somewhere gets something in this that's motivational to them. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure how you could listen to this and not be motivated to go beyond what your own expectations are for yourself. And I think, you know, the big things that I
have really latched onto. if I were somebody on the outside and I am, my hope is that, you know, I take the time and really develop the core values for my family. I feel like I do a great job of working on the business. And then it's like, the family gets the leftovers almost, you know, and so it's time to kind of put the.
Matthew Porter (59:36)
do a great job in the business. The family gets the left over.
Christopher Swing (59:46)
the horse before the cart and straighten that out. And I just think that there's so many things, so many pieces in this that you guys can grab motivation from and go out and do something amazing for somebody. And I thank you. Thank you for the time It's really cool.
Matthew Porter (59:49)
think that there's so many things so many pieces in this that you guys can grab motivation from and go out and do something amazing for somebody.
you're sending your audience. I mean, I really do.
