Faithful
Welcome to Faithful, the podcast where inspirational leadership meets strategic insight in business. Join us each week as we explore the stories, strategies, and wisdom of industry leaders and visionaries who embody resilience, integrity, and faith in their pursuits.
In each episode, we explore transformative leadership principles, actionable strategies, and the power of faith in navigating business challenges. Whether you’re an aspiring entrepreneur, an established leader, or simply looking for motivation to elevate your journey, "Faithful" is your go-to resource for inspiration and growth.
Tune in to discover how to lead purposefully, cultivate a thriving team culture, and harness your unique vision to make a lasting impact. Let’s embark on a growth, empowerment, and faithful leadership journey together.
Faithful
Transforming Lives Through Education in Ghana
Summary
In this conversation, Jared and Anna Odle share their inspiring journey of supporting education in Ghana through the Developing Kids Ghana organization. They discuss their calling to move to Ghana, the challenges and benefits of living there, and the importance of building relationships within the community. The Odles emphasize the need for education and economic development in Ghana, highlighting their initiatives to support students and families. They invite listeners to get involved and support their mission, emphasizing the importance of humility and collaboration in their work.
Takeaways
The journey to Ghana was driven by a calling to serve.
Building relationships is crucial for effective community engagement.
Education is a key focus for transforming lives in Ghana.
Cultural adaptation is essential for successful missionary work.
Challenges in Ghana include access to resources and infrastructure.
Transportation in Ghana presents unique challenges and opportunities.
The importance of understanding local needs before implementing solutions.
Developing Kids Ghana aims to support first-generation college students.
Community involvement is vital for the success of educational initiatives.
The Odles encourage others to visit and experience the work in Ghana.
Sound Bites
"Your story is truly inspiring."
"We want to transform their families."
"We need to keep doing this."
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Purpose of the Mission
04:53 The Decision-Making Process for Moving
08:59 Challenges of Living in Ghana
13:39 Faith and Everyday Life in Ghana
17:17 Building Local Partnerships
18:06 Respecting Local Perspectives
20:23 The Importance of Relationships
21:12 Choosing the Right Battles
21:52 Humility in Leadership
22:53 Navigating Local Protocols
23:54 Community Engagement Initiatives
24:59 Investing in the Whole Community
25:44 Balancing Support and Local Business
26:33 Future Opportunities in Ghana
27:26 The Importance of Capital and Relationships
29:55 Understanding Local Needs and Opportunities
32:11 Cultural Challenges and Community Impact
35:40 Education and Economic Development in Ghana
40:43 Developing Kids Ghana: A Vision for Education
47:25 How to Support and Engage with DKG
Faithful - https://faithful.buzzsprout.com/
Please feel free to check out the organizations that support us:
Vantage Surgical Solutions - https://vantage.healthcare/
Vantage Surgical Solutions Careers - https://vantage.healthcare/careers/
Chris Contact Info - https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherswing/
And the ones we support:
Missions:
Developing Kids Ghana - https://developingkidsghana.com/
Eastern Dominican Christian Mission - https://easterndominican.org/
Broadway Christian Church - https://broadwaycc.churchcenter.com/home/
57/70 Task Force: https://5770taskforce.org/
Christopher Swing (00:00)
Welcome to Faithful, the podcast where we explore the intersection of leadership, faith, and impact. I'm your host, Christopher Swing, president and CEO of Vantage Surgical Solutions. Through thoughtful conversations with business leaders, missionaries, and change makers, we uncover the principles that guide their work and connect them to timeless wisdom. In season one, we're diving into the foundational organizations and experiences that shape my own leadership journey. Whether you're a leader in business,
faith or your community, this conversation is packed with inspiration and practical wisdom. Thank you for joining me on this journey of discovering how faith and leadership intersect in meaningful ways. Let's dive into the episode.
Christopher Swing (00:43)
I am super blessed today to be here with Jared and Anna Odle. They are supporting the Developing Kids Ghana organization, which supports education inside of Ghana, primarily in the Tamale area, but even in the surroundings far out into the bush do their programs reach.
Anna (00:43)
I am super blessed today to be here with Jared and Hannah Odo. They are supporting the Developing Kids Ghana organization which supports education inside of Ghana.
Jared (00:43)
I am super blessed today to be here with Jared and Anna Odle. They are supporting the Developing Kids Ghana organization which supports education inside of Ghana. Primarily...
Anna (01:01)
But even in the surroundings, far out into the bush, do their programs reach.
Jared (01:03)
even in the surroundings, out into
Anna (01:07)
also started some churches in the area, of which I had the opportunity to.
Christopher Swing (01:08)
Jared also started some churches in the area of which I had the opportunity to
Jared (01:08)
Jared also started some churches in
Christopher Swing (01:13)
visit when we came over to Ghana. And as you notice, I have a little bit different shirt on. Usually it's a business shirt with a suit, but this is a shirt that they gave me when I was there not too long ago in February of this year. And I thought it was fitting for this particular show. So welcome you guys.
Anna (01:16)
And as you notice, I have a little bit different shirt on. Usually it's a business shirt with a suit, but this is a shirt that they gave me when I was there.
Jared (01:16)
And as you notice, I have a little bit different shirt on. Usually it's a business shirt with a suit, but this is a shirt that they gave me when
Fitting for
Anna (01:31)
fitting for
Thank you, it's great to be here. Thanks for having us today. So your story is truly inspiring. For those of you who don't know, I've made two trips to Ghana in the last 18 or 20 months or so. Really, probably would have made more than that, but between them coming here and just the time from...
Jared (01:35)
Thank you.
Christopher Swing (01:38)
Yeah, so your story is truly inspiring. And for those of who don't know, I've made two trips to Ghana in the last 18 or 20 months or so. Really probably would have made more than that. But between them coming here and just the time from our
Anna (01:54)
our first trip to getting the second trip organized. There's just a lot of effort that goes into that process. But it's pretty amazing the work that they're doing. And
Christopher Swing (01:55)
first trip to getting the second trip organized, there's just a lot of effort that goes into that process. But it's pretty amazing the work that they're doing.
Jared (01:55)
trip to getting the second trip organized. There's just a lot of effort that goes into that process. But it's pretty amazing the work that they're
Anna (02:05)
I think God will continue to bless that region of the country based upon their work.
Christopher Swing (02:05)
And I think God will continue to bless that region of the country based upon their work.
Jared (02:06)
think God will continue to bless that region of the country based upon their
Christopher Swing (02:11)
It's crazy to see the people firsthand and the blessings that they've given both locally and then regionally as they continue to expand out into what they call the bush. So let's kind of take the leadership focus of this as this podcast is based.
Anna (02:11)
It's crazy to see the people first hand and the blessings that they've given both locally and then...
Jared (02:16)
people firsthand and the blessings that they've given both locally and then...
Anna (02:23)
expand out into what they call a push. So let's kind of take the leadership focus of this as this podcast is based
Jared (02:23)
expand out into what they call a push. So let's kind of take the leadership focus of this as this podcast is based
and give us an idea of what led you guys to dedicate your life to.
Anna (02:32)
and give us an idea of what led you guys to dedicate your life to this.
Christopher Swing (02:33)
And give us an idea of what led you guys to dedicate your life to this particular
mission.
Jared (02:42)
Yeah, thanks, Chris. So my for me on my side, I grew up wanting to be a pastor and I was pastoring a small church and really it was a good season for us and I was enjoying what I was doing, but been overseas before I knew the Lord had called us. And one of the things that Anna and I talk about quite a bit is it's there are other people who could be a pastor here, but not as many people who would be willing to go and do.
Anna (02:42)
Yeah, thanks Chris. So my for me on my side I grew up wanting to be a pastor and I was pastoring a small church and really it was a good season for us and I was enjoying what I was doing but been overseas before I knew the Lord had called us and one of the things that Anna and I talked about quite a bit is it's there are other people who could be a pastor here but not as many people who would be
Christopher Swing (02:43)
So for me, I'm
It was a good season for us and was enjoying what I was doing. But I've been overseas before.
And one of the things that Anna and I talk about quite a bit is there are other people who could be a pastor here, but not as many people who would be willing to go and do
what we would do in Ghana. And we kept praying.
Jared (03:11)
what we would do in Ghana. And we kept praying and the Lord
Anna (03:13)
in Ghana. And we kept praying and the
Lord really put it in my mind about how I could work with other pastors.
Jared (03:16)
really put it in my mind about how I could work with other pastors and leaders in another country in Ghana to multiply churches, to help those churches to grow and help Muslims to understand the truth of who Jesus is. So that's kind of my story of how I wound up in Ghana.
Christopher Swing (03:19)
I
Anna (03:24)
churches, to help those churches to grow, and help Muslims to understand the truth of who Jesus is. So that's kind of my story of how I wound up.
Christopher Swing (03:25)
to help those churches to grow and help Muslims to understand the truth of who Jesus is. So that's kind of my story of how I went about being a nun.
Yeah, I think what led me to this specific ministry I had homeschooled our kids for about 20 years.
Anna (03:35)
Yeah, I think what led me to this specific ministry is
Jared (03:35)
Yeah, I think what led me to this specific ministry is I had homeschooled our kids for, I've homeschooled for about 20 years.
Anna (03:43)
I had homeschooled our kids for, I've homeschooled for about 20 years, and
Jared (03:48)
and I'm
Anna (03:49)
I'm getting to the end of that. We have six children, and I started doing some volunteer work in some local schools in Tomalee teaching kids how to read. And I quickly found out most students at the junior high level,
Jared (03:49)
getting to the end of that. We have six children and so I started doing some volunteer work in some local schools in Tomalee teaching kids how to read. And I quickly found out that most students at the junior high level couldn't read at all. Some of them didn't even know their alphabet.
Christopher Swing (03:49)
Getting to the end of that, we have six children. And so I started doing some volunteer work in some local schools in Tomalee teaching kids how to read. And I quickly found out that most students at the junior high couldn't read at all. Some of them didn't even know their alphabet.
Anna (04:04)
couldn't read at all. Some of them didn't even know their
Christopher Swing (04:09)
others could read, but not very fluently. And it just struck me what a huge need there is. And so the Lord just kind of led me into starting developing Kids Ghana and working in education because of the needs that I saw.
Jared (04:09)
And others could read, but not very fluently. And it just struck me what a huge need there is. And so the Lord just kind of led me starting Developing Kids Ghana and working in education because the needs that I saw.
Anna (04:09)
and others could read but not very fluently and it just struck me what a huge need there is. And so the Lord just kind of led me into starting developing Kids Ghana and working in education because of the needs that I saw.
Jared (04:26)
what does that look like to make the decision to transition to another?
Christopher Swing (04:28)
what does that look like to make the decision to transition to another country to put your lives on hold, per se, some would argue. Some would argue that that was the beginning of a completely different, amazing experience. But let's just say, for the purposes of the angle of looking at it from a US-based individual, that's
Anna (04:28)
does that look like to make the decision to transition to another
country?
Jared (04:33)
to...
put your lives on hold per se, some would argue, some would argue that that's
Anna (04:42)
Someone argue.
Jared (04:47)
say for the purposes of the angle of looking at it from a US base.
Anna (04:47)
say for the purposes of angle of looking at it from a U.S. base.
Christopher Swing (04:54)
listening to this podcast, know, like what does that decision process look like? And then what is the physical process? It's not just, you can't just wake up one day, right, and decide, hey, I'm gonna go to Ghana and I'm gonna be a missionary and we're gonna start churches and teach kids how to read. Like, those are amazing things, but like, what does that process look like?
Jared (04:56)
you know, like what does that decision process look like and then what is the physical process? It's not just, you can't just wake up one day, right, and decide, hey, I'm gonna go to Ghana and I'm gonna be a missionary and we're gonna start churches and teach kids how to read. Like, those are amazing things, but like, what does that...
Anna (04:56)
know like what is that decision process look like and then what is the physical process it's not just you can't just wake up one day right and decide hey I'm gonna go to Ghana and we're gonna start churches and teach kids how to read like yeah amazing things but like what does that process look like yeah
It took a lot of years, to be honest. Jared and I did make a survey trip to Ghana a number of years before we decided to move there.
Jared (05:18)
It took a lot of years to be honest. and I did make a survey trip to Ghana a number of years before.
Anna (05:26)
We knew some of the other missionaries working in the country and had some connections. And when we really made the decision that we would go to Ghana, it first took us about 18 to 24 months of just fundraising. We had to visit friends and churches and we had to make new friends and we had to convince people that this was worth supporting. And when we hit that level where
Jared (05:26)
We knew some of the other missionaries working in the country and had some connections. And when we really made the decision that we would go to Ghana, it first took us about 18 to 24 months of just fundraising. We had to visit friends and churches and we had to make new friends and we had to convince people that, you know.
Christopher Swing (05:26)
We knew some of the missionaries working in the country and had some connections. And when we really made the decision that we would go to Ghana, it first took us about 18 to 24 months of just fundraising. We had to visit friends and churches and we had to make new friends and we had to convince people that, you know.
Jared (05:49)
this was worth supporting. And when we hit that level where
Christopher Swing (05:49)
this was worth supporting. And when we hit that level where
Anna (05:55)
we
Christopher Swing (05:55)
we were about 75 % supported, we bought plane tickets. And we'd already been in process of selling our house, our cars, a lot of our possessions. I gave each one of our kids a box, like, I don't know, one foot by three foot box. And I was like,
Jared (05:55)
we were about 75 % supported, we bought plane tickets. And we'd already been in process of selling our house, our cars, a lot of our possessions. I gave each one of our kids a box like, I don't know.
Anna (05:55)
were about 75 % supported, we bought plane tickets and we'd already been in process of selling our house, our a lot of our I gave each one of our kids a box like, I don't know, one foot by three foot box and I was like, okay, this is the stuff you can keep and come home to someday and that's all the space you get. And so we had to downsize every
Jared (06:12)
one foot by three foot box and I was like, okay, this is the stuff you can keep and come home to someday and that's all the space you get. And so we had to downsize everything.
Christopher Swing (06:15)
hey, this is the stuff you can keep and come home to someday, and that's all the space you get. And so we had to downsize everything.
Anna (06:23)
thing. So yeah, it was a huge process.
Christopher Swing (06:23)
So yeah, it was a huge process. Yeah, we, on the physical side, we wound up taking a family of six and everything we own, we either carried or got put into a 12 passenger van that we shipped over. So it was, that was a pretty major ordeal.
Jared (06:23)
So yeah, it was a huge process.
Yeah, we on the physical side we wound up taking a family of six and everything we owned. We either carried or got put into a 12 passenger van that we shipped over, so it was. That was a pretty major ordeal.
Anna (06:40)
So it was, that was a pretty major ordeal.
We had kids from two years old to 16 years old. So it's like traveling with your own youth six of them. So there's a lot of adjustment.
Jared (06:44)
We had kids from two years old to 16 years old, so it's like traveling with your own youth group. Six of six of them. So there was a lot of adjustment along that way. I think the other thing for us though it really began.
Christopher Swing (06:44)
We had kids from two years old to 16 years old, so it's like traveling with your own youth group. Six of them. So there's a lot of adjustment on that way. I think the other thing for us though, it really began with
Anna (06:54)
think the other thing for us though, it really began...
Jared (06:57)
with our relationship with the
Christopher Swing (06:58)
our relationship with
Jared (06:59)
Lord and our values, right? What struck me, I went to a college and we both went to college in St. Louis and I went there going from rural Missouri, middle of nowhere Missouri because I wanted to work in an urban area. I wanted to cross-cultural. I wanted to do something different. And so working with the poor had always been on my heart and it just captured me. You know.
Christopher Swing (07:00)
What struck me, I went to a college and we both went to college in St. Louis and I went there going from rural Missouri, middle of nowhere Missouri because I wanted to work in an
Anna (07:01)
What struck me, I went to a college in, we both went to college in St. Louis, and I went there going from rural Missouri, middle of nowhere Missouri.
Christopher Swing (07:16)
And so working with the poor had always been in my heart and just captured me. know,
Anna (07:16)
And so working with the poor had always been in my heart and just captured me.
Christopher Swing (07:21)
the
Anna (07:21)
the church, we have so much and God has so many blessings. What can I do to be a part
Jared (07:21)
the church we have so much and God has so many blessings what can I do to be a part of
Christopher Swing (07:21)
church, have so much and God has so many blessings. What can I do to be a part of?
Jared (07:27)
helping the poor and for me what happened I was I was studying theology I was working on my Masters in Church History I was talking with one of my mentors and he's an urban ministry professor and he asked me this question he said okay Jared I know that you can do theology I know somebody else is going to figure out postmodern theology which they did by the way
Christopher Swing (07:28)
And for me, what happened, I was studying theology. I was working on my master's in church history. was talking with one of my mentors.
Anna (07:29)
And for me, what happened, I was studying theology. was working on a
I talking with one of my mentors and he's an urban ministry professor and he asked me this question. He said, okay Jared, I know that you can do theology. I know somebody else is gonna figure out postmodern theology, which they did by the way.
Christopher Swing (07:39)
said, okay, Jared, I know that you can do theology. I know somebody else is going to figure out postmodern theology, which they did, by the way.
Anna (07:47)
But he asked this question, who else is gonna serve the poor? And it hit me that nobody I went to school with cared about the poor as much as I did. So it really came back to these, what?
Christopher Swing (07:48)
But he asked this question. Who else is going to serve the poor? And it hit me that nobody I went to school with cared about the poor as much as I did. So it really came back to what God had put in the scripture, what the Holy Spirit had in the scripture about the poor. And that's something Anna and I share in common.
Jared (07:48)
But he asked this question, who else is going to serve the poor? And it hit me that nobody I went to school with cared about the poor as much as I did. So it really came back to these, what God had put in scripture, what the Holy Spirit had in scripture about the poor. And that's something Anna and I share in common.
Anna (08:02)
put in scripture what the Holy Spirit had in scripture about the poor. And that's something Anna and I share in common.
Jared (08:08)
It's really a big part of the DNA of our marriage, of wanting to serve. And so that heart issue had already been decided.
Anna (08:08)
It's really a big part of the DNA of our of wanting to serve. And so that heart issue had already been decided. I think that's why God kept knocking on it and why the Holy Spirit kept saying, hey, go look at Africa, go look at northern Ghana.
Christopher Swing (08:08)
It's really a big part of the DNA of our marriage, of wanting to serve. And so that heart issue had already been decided.
Jared (08:16)
And when, and I think that's why God kept knocking on it and why the Holy Spirit kept saying, hey, go look at Africa, go look at Northern Ghana,
because our hearts were already ready to be moved there when maybe that's not the calling of someone else and it just fit us.
Christopher Swing (08:32)
Yeah, that's wild. So I could dig into that all day You can if you want. I literally could. We could go so far in the left field. But first, let's get into some of the challenges. And I think this may be as interesting as that, potentially. But being in a third world country,
Anna (08:32)
Yeah, that's why. So let's, I can dig into that all day. You can if you want. We're four years, man. So we're going to go so far in the left field. So, but first let's get into some of the challenges. And I think this may be more as interesting as that potentially. But, you know, being in.
Jared (08:34)
So, let's, I could dig into that all day. You can if you want. mean, we're yours, man, so whatever you wanna do.
Christopher Swing (08:59)
for say, comes with unique challenges. And for most of our listeners, they likely wouldn't have experienced extensive amounts of time in a third world country like.
Anna (09:02)
And for most of our listeners, they likely wouldn't have experienced extensive amounts of time.
Jared (09:05)
they likely wouldn't have experienced extensive amounts of time.
Christopher Swing (09:12)
Give us the pros and cons of the people of Ghana and the environment in which you guys are educating and ministering. so what are the challenges? then I think so often people like to look at one side and not the other. There's obviously some huge benefits, too. And so what are your guys' perspective on that?
Anna (09:13)
Give us the pros and cons of the people of Ghana and the environment.
Jared (09:13)
Give us the pros and cons of
educating and administering and you know so what are the challenges and then I think so often people like to look at one side and not the other there's some obviously some huge benefits to it so like what are your guys
Anna (09:21)
educating and administering and you know, so what are the challenges and then I think so often people like to look at one side and not the other. There's some obviously some huge benefits to it. So what are your guys' perspective on
those?
A lot of the challenges for me just come with trying to feed and clothe and sustain our family with some of the essentials. We don't have Walmart. We can't order from Amazon. We don't even have a mailbox. shopping looks a lot different. I either have to go to market and
Jared (09:40)
just for me, just come with trying to feed and clothe and sustain our family with some of the essentials. We don't have Walmart, we can't order from Amazon, we don't even have mailbox. So shopping looks a lot different, I either have to go to market and...
Christopher Swing (09:44)
and clothes and sustain our family with some of the essentials. We don't have Walmart. can't.
know, shopping looks a lot different. I either have to go to market
Anna (10:03)
In market, most women sell one thing. They may only sell vegetables,
Jared (10:03)
In market, most women sell one thing. They may only sell vegetables,
Christopher Swing (10:03)
in market, most women one thing. They may only sell much more.
Anna (10:08)
they
Jared (10:08)
they may only sell fruit, they may only sell beans or yam. And so I have to make a lot of stops in order to get shopping done. So that's just time consuming.
Anna (10:08)
may only sell fruit, they may only sell beans or yam. And so I have to make a lot of stops in order to get shopping done. So that's just time consuming. Water is always an issue. It's really a precious commodity in our area of the world. So, you know, we learn to take short baths or When we first moved there, we would tell the kids,
Christopher Swing (10:12)
So I have to make a lot of stops in order to get shopping done. So that's just time consuming. Water is always an issue. It's really a precious commodity in our area of the we learn to take short baths or showers. When we first moved there, we would tell the kids,
Jared (10:18)
Water is always an issue. It's really a precious commodity in our area of the world. So, you know, we learn to take short baths or showers. When we first moved there, we would tell the kids you
are taking a bucket bath, you get one bucket of water. So use it wisely.
Christopher Swing (10:29)
are taking a bucket bath. You get one bucket of
Anna (10:30)
are taking a bucket bath you get one bucket of water
so use it wisely.
I don't know, there's a lot of just daily challenges. Our lights go off, so what do you do when your lights are off for eight hours or 10 hours and you were hoping to do some work that day and now no lights, your computer battery is dead, so you just go outside and find something else to do for the day.
Jared (10:36)
I don't know, there's a lot of just daily challenges. Our lights go off, so what do you do when your lights are off for eight hours or 10 hours and you were hoping to do some work that day and now no lights, your computer battery is dead, so you just go outside and find something else to do for the day.
But a lot of the good things in the culture that we live in, the people that we live with,
Anna (10:55)
But a lot of the good things in the culture that we live in, the people that we live with,
they have a beautiful culture. They really value relationships. They value being with each other. It's a slower pace of life.
Jared (11:00)
They have a beautiful culture. They really value relationships. They value being with each other. It's a slower pace of life.
The sun comes up about 6 o'clock and goes down about 6 o'clock year-round.
Anna (11:11)
the sun comes up about six o'clock and goes down about six o'clock year round.
And so in the evenings, we don't go out a whole lot. We might visit with friends. We might just be home with the family, but we have a lot of family time and we get to spend a lot of time just visiting with friends and neighbors. Those are some of the benefits to us, definitely. Yeah, I mean, there's all kinds of challenges.
Jared (11:17)
And so in the evenings, we don't go out a whole lot. We might visit with friends. We might just be home with the family, but we have a lot of family time and we get to spend a lot of time just visiting with friends and neighbors. Those are some of the benefits to us, definitely. Yeah, I mean, there's there's all kinds of challenges.
Christopher Swing (11:22)
you
Jared (11:38)
One of the one of the big ones is just figuring out like.
And I mentioned just food and things like that. We were talking today about why don't I just grow, raise a cow and have half a cow in the freezer. Well, our freezers are already full, so it's easier just to go down to the butcher and buy some. There's just things like that that we kind of have to think about differently in terms of resourcing. In terms of doing business, it's really different too. Contracts aren't the same.
Anna (11:46)
Why don't I?
It's just things like that that we kind have to think about different.
business, really different too. know, contracts aren't the same.
Everything is very relational. And so, learning how to operate within a relational system where it's either really, really good or really, really bad based on relationships, not based on a contract, that's something to get used to. And we've had some experiences with that, on non-profit and for-profit side. That's a challenge. There's a challenge in terms of
Jared (12:07)
everything is very relational. so learning how to operate within a relational system where it's either really, really good or really, really bad based on relationships, not based on a contract, that's something to get used to. And we've had some experiences with that on a nonprofit and for-profit side. That's a challenge. There's a challenge in terms of...
Christopher Swing (12:15)
you
Jared (12:29)
When you say you're going to do something, what that means to someone, like as a promise, right? Those of us who've traveled overseas, if somebody says, I want a computer. well, can you get me one? You say, yeah, just kind of off-handed. No, that's like a serious promise now that you have promised a computer for someone. there's some differences as far as that goes.
Anna (12:29)
when you say you're going to do something, what that means to someone, like as a promise, right? Those of us who've traveled overseas, if somebody says, I want a computer, well, can you get me one? You say, yeah, just kind of off-handed. No, that's like a serious promise now that you have promised a computer for someone. there's some differences as far as that goes.
Jared (12:55)
I think one the other things though that is really lovely about the people we work, that we live with, the Dagomba people in the Tomale region, when it comes to worship and the church, they just share. Like everybody, know, every Baptist would feel out of place because all the Baptists are also charismatic, because we move, you we dance. There's no holding back.
Anna (13:06)
just they just share like everybody you know every Baptist would feel out of place
Christopher Swing (13:09)
you
Anna (13:14)
because we move, we dance. There's no holding back
because culturally, people grow up knowing God is with us. And so I really, really appreciate that. There was a time that...
Jared (13:18)
Because culturally, you know, people grow up knowing God is with us. And so I really, really appreciate that. There was a time that
Anna and one of her one of our missionary friends was visiting another Muslim lady and she said, hey, you two need to go talk to these other white people from Europe who don't know any God because they got some real problems. At least we here in Ghana, we know God and we know you know God. So get your people to know God. So because the Lord is God is so
Anna (13:32)
and she said, hey, you two need to go talk to these other white...
least we here in Ghana we know God and we know you know God so get your people to know God. So because the Lord is God is so
Jared (13:47)
well known, there's a different way that we have
Anna (13:48)
well known there's a different way that we have
Jared (13:51)
to talk about the reality of our faith and how that affects our everyday life. So it's a different kind of challenge than what a lot of, you know, faithful Jesus followers here in the U.S. have.
Anna (13:53)
faith and how that affects our everyday life. it's different kind of challenge than what
faithful Jesus followers here in.
Chris (14:06)
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Christopher Swing (14:29)
So tell me a little bit about transportation in the country and the complexities of getting from point A to point
Anna (14:29)
So tell me a little bit about transportation.
Jared (14:29)
So tell me a little bit about transportation.
Anna (14:35)
complexities of giving from formative point.
So.
Christopher Swing (14:38)
So
if you were to come.
Anna (14:40)
If you were to come visit
Jared (14:40)
If you were to come visit
us in Ghana, you would fly into our capital city of Accra and then you would either get a bus or a plane. You can come up to Tamale by bus. It will take you about 12 hours. Either you leave in the night and arrive sometime the next day or you leave in the day and drive all day or you can take a one hour plane ride. So we're not it's not actually that far, but our roads are terrible.
Anna (14:40)
us in Ghana, you would fly into our capital city of Accra and then you would either get a bus or a plane. You can come up to Tamale by bus. It will take you about 12 hours. Either you'll leave in the night and arrive sometime the next day or you leave in the day and drive all day or you can take a one hour plane ride. So we're not it's not actually that far, but our roads are terrible. Most people don't really
Christopher Swing (14:45)
And then.
You can come up to Tumley by bus and we'll take you about.
You leave in the night and arrive sometime the next day, or you leave in the day and drive all day, or you can take a one hour plane ride. So it's not actually that far, but our
Jared (15:06)
Most people don't really
Christopher Swing (15:07)
Most people don't really
Anna (15:08)
have their own car, so motorcycles are really
Jared (15:08)
have their own car, so motorcycles are really...
Christopher Swing (15:08)
have their own car, so motorcycles are really...
Anna (15:11)
common or taxis are really common. So most people get around that way or they walk or ride a bicycle. So yeah, in rainy season, a lot of the roads get washed out. They're so muddy and the potholes are so deep, they'll swallow your car. So there's times of the year that I don't travel out to the bush to visit our schools because we probably wouldn't make it there and back.
Christopher Swing (15:14)
So most people get around that way, or they walk or ride a bicycle. So yeah, in rainy season, a lot of the roads get washed out. They're so muddy, and the potholes are so deep, they'll swallow your car. So there's times of the year that I don't travel out to the bush to visit our schools, because we probably wouldn't make it.
Jared (15:14)
So most people get around that way or they walk or ride a bicycle. So yeah, in rainy season, a lot of the roads get washed out. They're so muddy and the potholes are so deep, they'll swallow your car. So there's times of the year that I don't travel out to the bush to visit our schools because we probably wouldn't make it there and back.
Anna (15:34)
Yeah,
Jared (15:35)
Yeah, there's, they're called rickshaws in India,
Christopher Swing (15:35)
Yeah, there's, they're called rickshaws in India.
Anna (15:36)
there's, they're called rickshaws in India.
Christopher Swing (15:38)
These little three-wheeled covered tricycles. And people take those. So just driving. There's a whole different sense of space in Africa than there is here in the US. And a different sense of what's right, wrong, and law. And if there is a little bit of daylight, that means I can go, especially if I'm the bigger vehicle. So yeah, transportation is quite different.
Jared (15:38)
these little three-wheeled covered tricycles and people take those and so just driving.
Anna (15:43)
just driving there's a whole different sense of space in Africa than there is here in the US and a different sense of what's right wrong in law and if there is a little bit of data
Jared (15:45)
There's a whole different sense of space in Africa than there is here in the U.S. and a different sense of what's right, wrong, and law. And if there is a little bit of daylight, that means I can go, especially if I'm the bigger vehicle. So yeah, transportation is quite different.
Anna (15:57)
especially if I'm the bigger vehicle. yeah, transportation is quite different.
Christopher Swing (16:02)
And we wind up there's a statistic that at least half of the food produced in Africa goes to waste because of transportation between just getting it out of the field, into coolers and everything else. It's a major, major problem
Anna (16:02)
And we wind up, there's a statistic that at least half of the food produced in Africa goes to waste because of transportation between just getting it out of the field, into coolers and everything else. It's a major, major problem.
Jared (16:02)
And we wind up, there's a statistic that at least half of the food produced in Africa goes to waste because of transportation between just getting it out of the field, into coolers and everything.
it's a major major problem
Christopher Swing (16:17)
throughout.
Jared (16:17)
throughout throughout Africa.
Christopher Swing (16:19)
So you guys have an extremely effective ministry and...
Anna (16:19)
So, you guys have been extremely effective.
Jared (16:19)
So, you guys have a
Christopher Swing (16:24)
there's a process by which you guys have chosen to operate. I wouldn't, I mean, I don't know if there is technically a process by which you should do things, but I know that culturally there's a lot of right ways to do things and frowned upon ways to do things. And you guys have chosen to do it the right way. And I think because of your willingness to adapt to
Anna (16:24)
There's a process by which you guys have chosen to...
Jared (16:24)
There is a process by which you guys have chosen to...
Anna (16:29)
don't know if there is technically a process by which you should do things, but I know that culturally...
Jared (16:38)
right ways to do things and frowned upon ways to do things. And you guys have chosen to do it.
Anna (16:38)
right ways to do things and frown upon ways to do things and you guys have chosen to do it the right way and I think because of your willingness to adapt to
Jared (16:47)
of your willingness to adapt to...
Anna (16:54)
how they like to
Christopher Swing (16:54)
how they like to
operate in country. It's given you guys the ability to not only have some significant impact, but also to have kind of the blessing of the chiefs in the areas in which you guys operate. didn't know if you wanted, people in the US and in most of the world probably have no idea what that looks like.
Anna (16:58)
giving you guys the ability to not only have some significant impact, but also to have kind of the blessing of the chiefs in the areas in which you guys operate. I didn't know if
Jared (16:58)
giving you guys the...
Also to have kind the blessing of the chiefs in the areas in which you guys operate. didn't know if you wanted, people in the US and in most of the world probably have no idea what that looks like.
Anna (17:17)
in most of the world probably have no idea what that looks like.
I don't know, do you have any thoughts around that? Yeah, definitely. You know, before I actually established Developing Kids Ghana, I spent about a year looking for a Dagomba
Christopher Swing (17:22)
I don't know, do you have any thoughts around that?
Jared (17:23)
Do you have any thoughts around that? Yeah. Before I actually established Developing Kids Ghana, I spent about a year looking for a Dagomba person
Christopher Swing (17:27)
Before I actually established...
I spent about a year looking for a Dagomba person
Anna (17:40)
person to start the organization with me because I felt a strong need to have a local presence and part of that is because culturally I'm gonna make a lot of mistakes on my own and I need someone who can
Jared (17:41)
to start the organization with me because I felt a strong need to have a
Christopher Swing (17:41)
to start the organization with me because I felt a strong need to have a local presence. And part of that is because culturally, I'm going to make a lot of mistakes on my own. And I need someone who can.
Jared (17:46)
And part of that is because culturally, I'm going to make a lot of mistakes on my own. And I need someone who can,
you know, help me not to completely embarrass myself by doing the wrong thing all the time. I also wanted...
Anna (17:54)
you know Help me not to completely embarrass myself By doing the wrong thing all the time. I also wanted
Christopher Swing (18:02)
you
Jared (18:06)
I wanted us to have a level of respect right off the bat because it wasn't just this idea that an American was coming in to fix a problem without partnering with the local people and hearing what they think the problem is. Sometimes when we see a situation and we feel like it's a problem, the local people, it's not a problem for them. And so we want to go in and fix something and they're like, you know what, leave it
Anna (18:06)
I wanted us to have a level of respect right off the bat.
because it wasn't just this idea that an American was coming in to fix a problem without partnering with the local people and hearing what they think the problem is. Sometimes when we see a situation and we feel like it's a problem, the local people, it's not a problem for them. And so we wanna go in and fix something and they're like, you know what, leave it alone.
Christopher Swing (18:14)
you
Anna (18:33)
But this issue over here really does need to be addressed.
Jared (18:33)
But this issue over here really does need to be addressed.
And so I spent about a year praying and building relationship with Moses, who did co-found the organization with me, and getting to know people in the community where we built a library and computer lab.
Anna (18:37)
And so.
I spent about a year praying and building relationship with Moses who did co-found the organization with me and getting to know people in the community where we built a library and computer lab.
And a lot of it was me trying to learn language and building relationships. And it was just getting familiar with each other. Those things take a long time and they had to kind of get used to my American
Jared (18:55)
And a lot of it was me trying to learn language and building relationships. And it was just getting familiar with each other. Those things take a long time. And they had to kind of get used to my...
Anna (19:07)
and all the attention, sometimes the strange attention that can bring. And I had to also just get used to their simple ways and to just say, you know what, it's okay for us to do things their way. It's worked a long time. so Moses and I have been able to work.
Jared (19:08)
and all the the attention sometimes a strange attention that I can bring and I had to also just get used to their simple ways and to just say you know what it's okay for us to do things their way it's worked a long time and so Moses and I have been able to work in a way together where you know one of us will have
Christopher Swing (19:10)
you
Anna (19:29)
in a way together where, you know, one of us will have
an idea. I kind of bring the American perspective of how we'll address it and he'll correct me and say, well, mama, this is actually how we should do it here. And then we somehow meet in the middle on how we're actually going to address the problem. So that's been one of the, I don't know, that's been pretty effective for me so far.
Jared (19:33)
I kind of bring the American perspective of how we'll address it and he'll correct me and say well mama this is actually how we should do it here and then we somehow meet in the middle
So that's been one of the, I that's been pretty effective for me so far.
Yeah, you know, I, so I do the same thing with pastors and it's been about being a learner, you know, rather than saying that. it's just so wrong, especially as Christians, to go into an area and say, hey, we need to go fix people, you know, because that's not the issue. They have a culture, it's worked for thousands of years. It's not the same as mine.
Anna (19:54)
So I do the same thing with pastors and it's been about being a learner, rather than saying that. it's just so wrong, especially as Christians, to go into an area and say, hey, we need to go fix people. Because that's not the issue. They have a culture, it's worked for thousands of years. It's not the same as mine. And
Christopher Swing (20:08)
you
Jared (20:15)
And that's not what we're there to do. We aren't there to fix everything, but we are there to help people who already love Jesus find better ways to do that.
Anna (20:15)
that's not what we're there to do. not there to fix everything. But we are there to help people who already love Jesus find better ways to do that.
And some of that means it is resources, but it's also finding the right people. Like Anna went through and had to find Moses. It's taken me a while to find my good friends, know, Musa and Zach, and God has brought us together. And that's what makes the difference is investing in relationships and being a learner. I think they are the expert in our culture. I'm not, but just willing to always be a learner and to listen.
Jared (20:23)
And some of that means it is resources, but it's also finding the right people. Like Anna went through and had to find Moses. It's taken me a while to find my good friends, know, Musa and Zach. And God has brought us together, and that's what makes the difference is investing in relationships and being a learner. think they are the expert in their culture. I'm not, but.
just willing to always be a learner and to listen
and to do things in a way that as we seek out the Lord together, you know, I'm gonna hear different things than what Zach is, but because we have that trust, we can share it just like Anna and Moses. I think it is about finding those. It's more important, I have found it's more important to have the right relationships.
Anna (20:51)
and to do things in a way that as we seek out the Lord together, I'm going to hear different things than what Zach is, but because we have that trust, we can share it, just like Anna and Moses. So I think it is about finding those. It's more important, I have found it's more important to have the right relationships
Christopher Swing (21:05)
you
Jared (21:12)
in leadership in Ghana
Anna (21:12)
in leadership in Ghana.
Jared (21:15)
to get very far. If we don't have good partners in leadership, we've seen a lot of other ministries just fall apart because they weren't asking questions to fit what people really wanted and what they felt like the Lord was leading them to do. And just like being a parent, sometimes you have to choose your battles. We've kind of found that as well. You know, we might feel like something is really important to
Anna (21:17)
and leadership. We've seen a lot of other ministries fall apart because they weren't asking questions to fit what people really wanted and what they felt like the Lord was leading them to.
And just like being a parent, sometimes you have to choose your battles. We've kind of found that as well. You know, we might feel like something is really important
Christopher Swing (21:28)
And just like being a parent, sometimes...
Anna (21:38)
to do or to change. And when we feel that issue out with our local friends, they're like, yeah, no, we're not touching that. And we have to choose to either fight that battle or leave it for now and decide to do it a different time. So you kind of have to be sensitive to choose the right battles to fight.
Jared (21:38)
to do or to change and when we feel that issue out with our local friends they're like yeah no we're not touching that and we have to choose to either fight that battle or leave it.
Christopher Swing (21:42)
you
Jared (21:52)
So you kind of have to be sensitive to choose the right battles to fight. And that
comes, it slaps us in the wrong way, but it is real humility, right? I mean, it's having something that we know we can offer, but offering it in a way where it can be used, those are two different things. And if we aren't humble,
Anna (21:57)
It slaps us in the wrong
It's having something that we know we can offer, offering it in a way
And if we aren't humble,
Jared (22:11)
we all miss out on what God could bring through all of us to do something. And they have to be humble too. Like it's, it really is an alignment.
Anna (22:11)
we all miss out on what God could bring through all of us to do something. And they have to be humble too. It really is an alignment.
Jared (22:19)
And those relationships are so important. Yeah. mean, I think the other advantage that you guys have is as you make mistakes, which are going to happen. Like the ability to
Christopher Swing (22:23)
Yeah, I mean, I think the other advantage that you guys have is
Anna (22:23)
Yeah, I mean, I think the other advantage that you guys have is as you make mistakes, which are going to happen. Like the ability to
Christopher Swing (22:27)
as you
make mistakes which are going to happen. Like the ability to
have a character, a known character there makes a difference. Because the benefit that most of those people have is they have a lineage. And for those who aren't aware, that's everything in a place like Ghana. So if you do something wrong,
Anna (22:36)
have a character, a known character there makes a difference. Because the benefit that most of those people have is they have a lineage.
Jared (22:39)
there makes a difference. Because the benefit that most of those people have is they have a little bit
Anna (22:53)
You know, if you do something wrong...
Jared (22:54)
You
Christopher Swing (22:56)
And you guys can correct me because I've only spent small times, small, small times there. But if you do something wrong, it comes back to, OK, well, are they in the lineage of people who don't screw things up? Because if they are, then they have a completely different perspective on how to deal with that person than if they are. And I love Moses and
Anna (22:59)
small small times there but if you do something wrong it comes back to okay well are they in the lineage
And I...
and
Jared (23:21)
this and
for context he's also the secretary.
Anna (23:23)
for context, he's also the secretary to the...
Christopher Swing (23:23)
For context, he's also the secretary
the chief, which definitely helps in keeping everything calm, especially in the home market or area that you guys live in. But that also carries some weight as you kind of further expand into the other chiefdoms too, because they're aware of him and what his family means to the country.
Anna (23:28)
which definitely helps in keeping everything calm, especially in the home market or area that you guys live in, but that also carries some weight as you kind of further expand into the other chiefdoms too, because they're aware of him and what his family means to the and he really knows, he understands
Jared (23:28)
which definitely helps.
carry some weight as we kind of further expand into the other chief domes too because they're aware of him and what his family means to the country. Yeah, and he really knows, he understands
Anna (23:52)
the protocol.
Jared (23:52)
the protocol. Moses has been really instrumental in launching our reading club program. We were in the middle of building the library
Anna (23:54)
Moses has been really instrumental in launching our reading club program. We were in the middle of building the library
Christopher Swing (23:55)
Moses has been really instrumental.
We were in the middle of building the library
Anna (24:04)
and
Christopher Swing (24:04)
and he was like, Mom, can we do something?
Anna (24:04)
he was like, mama, can we do something for students who are less privileged than those that live in our community? And through a lot of conversation, we arrived at this idea to start reading clubs in some real Bush communities. And that was his initiative.
Jared (24:04)
he was like, can we do something for students who are less privileged than those that live in our community? And through a lot of conversation, we arrived at this idea to start reading clubs in some real Bush communities. And that was his initiative.
He has every year since we started that pushed me to start a yam farm in those communities. And I'm like, I'm not a
Anna (24:22)
He has, every year since we started that, pushed me to start a yam farm in those communities. And I'm like, I'm not.
A
farmer? I have a green thumb and I love gardening, but I'm not a yam farmer. But his family has always farmed and he has been so persistent. The first few years it didn't work out very well, but just recently another chief gave us a very large piece of land and this year the yam farm is going to be substantial. And so it's just been so neat to watch him.
Christopher Swing (24:32)
you
Jared (24:32)
thumb and I love gardening but I'm not a yam farmer. But his family has always farmed and he has been so persistent. The first few years it didn't work out very well but just recently another chief gave us a very large piece of land and this year the yam farm is going to be substantial. And so it's just been so neat to watch him.
Anna (24:59)
communicate to me what is important.
Jared (24:59)
Communicate to me what is important.
It's not just important to do one thing. We can impact communities in multiple ways by being involved in the life of the whole community, not just the school and school students and what affects them, but to be known to other audiences within the community.
Anna (25:01)
It's not just important to do one thing. We can impact communities in multiple ways by being involved in the life of the whole community, not just the school and school students and what affects them, but to to be known to other audiences within the community.
So now we're getting in with the chief and with farmers and that's it's neat. I'm excited to see where that leads.
Jared (25:21)
So now we're getting in with the chief and with farmers and that's, it's neat. I'm excited to see where that leads.
Yes, I've thought about that a lot as you know, I came over to teach some how to start businesses and things like that. And one of the questions was always, you know, what are we investing in? What are we investing in? And you know, how do you guys...
Christopher Swing (25:30)
Yeah, so I've thought about that a lot as I came over to teach some how to start businesses and things like that. And one of the questions was always, what are we investing in? What are we investing in? And how do you guys?
Anna (25:30)
Yes, I've thought about that a lot.
start businesses and things like that and one of the questions was always you what are we investing in? What are we investing in? And know how do you guys
Christopher Swing (25:45)
ensure that you're not negating the wares or the benefits of the people who are there because it's easy for us to swoop in with lots of resources and do whatever we want to, but we're going to do it at a cost to someone, right? And so how do you approach that? Like when you're dealing with your, maybe even some of your for-profit stuff, like how do we do it in a way that's insightful?
Jared (25:45)
sure that you're
Anna (25:45)
sure
Jared (25:48)
negating the wares or the benefits of the people who are there. Because it's easy for us to swoop in with lots of resources and do whatever we want to, but we're gonna do it at a cost to someone, right? And so how do you approach that?
Anna (25:52)
of the people who are there because it's easy for us to swoop in with lots of resources and do whatever we want to but we're gonna do it at a cost to someone right and so how do you approach that like when you're dealing with your maybe even some of your for-profit stuff like how do we do it in a way that's insightful
Jared (26:09)
stuff like how do we do it in a way that's insightful
Anna (26:13)
and carefully enough to where
Jared (26:13)
and carefully enough to where we don't negate the small business which is and this is like taking solo
Christopher Swing (26:14)
and carefully enough to where we don't negate the small business, is, and this is like taking solopreneur to a whole nother level
Anna (26:17)
We don't negate the small business, is, and this is like taking solo premier into a whole nother level
Christopher Swing (26:26)
for
Anna (26:26)
for those of you who don't know.
Christopher Swing (26:26)
those of you who don't know. mean, most of these businesses are literally like one man or one person shops type thing. And so how do we help them, but how do we help them by not hurting them kind of a thing, I guess is.
Anna (26:33)
And so how do you, how do we help them, but how do we help them by not hurting them? Kind of the thing, I guess is,
Jared (26:41)
That's
Christopher Swing (26:41)
That's what I always think about, especially the second trip, more than the first. The first trip I was just like, my gosh, I can't take it all in. The second trip was like, OK, this is intriguing to me. They're more resourceful than the US. They're 50 to 75 years behind us. And the opportunity that exists there, in my opinion, over the next 50 to 75 years is going to dwarf.
Anna (26:41)
that's what I always think about, especially the second trip, more than the first. The first trip I was just like, my gosh, I can't take it all in. The second trip was like, okay, this is intriguing to me. They're more resourceful than the US. They're 50 to 75 years behind us. And the...
Jared (26:42)
what I always think about especially the second trip more than the first the first trip I was just like my gosh I can't take it all in. The second trip was like okay this is intriguing to me. They're more resourceful than the US. They're 50 to 75 years behind us and the opportunity that exists there in my opinion over the next 50 to 75 years is you can dwarf.
Anna (27:02)
opportunity that exists there in my opinion over the next 50 to 75 years is going to dwarf anything
Christopher Swing (27:09)
anything that we could have ever visualized in the US. you how do you, how do we meaningfully help them? How do we meaningfully invest with them, but not take away from them? Because I mean, that, that, kind of is contradictory to what we're trying to do.
Jared (27:09)
anything that we could ever visualize in the US. So, you how do we meaningfully help them? How do we meaningfully invest with them, but not take away from them? Because I mean, that kind of is contradictory to what we're trying to do.
Anna (27:09)
that we could have ever visualized in the US. So, know, how do we meaningfully help them? How do we meaningfully invest with them but not take away from them? Because I mean, that kind of is contradictory to what we're trying to do.
Jared (27:26)
One of the things that's always necessary is access to capital. But everybody thinks about if I just had the money to go do something, then I can like hit this home run. You everybody's got a great idea, me included, right? I mean, we all have that. But it's not just about having money. There's more to building a person in business. And everybody listening to podcast knows that.
Anna (27:26)
One of the things that's always necessary is access to capital. But everybody thinks about if I just had the money to go do something, then I can hit this home run. Everybody's got a great idea, me included. We all have that. But it's not just about having money. There's more to building a person in the business. And everybody listening to podcast knows that.
Christopher Swing (27:31)
Everybody thinks about if I just had the money to go do something.
Jared (27:50)
So it's getting past the perception and getting into some real felt needs. So let me give an example of a negative and a positive. So a negative example would be like.
Anna (27:50)
So it's getting past the perception and getting into some real felt needs. So let me give an example of a negative and a positive. So a negative example would be like
there are goodwill bundles that flood our market with used American clothes. And they're cheap clothes, which sounds great because it's cheap. The problem is it's so cheap that it's running out a lot of locally made, like you're wearing, Chris.
Jared (28:01)
There are goodwill bundles that flood our market with used American clothes and they're cheap clothes, which sounds great because it's cheap. The problem is it's so cheap that it's running out a lot of locally made like you're wearing Chris
Christopher Swing (28:01)
you
Jared (28:17)
attire. Right. And so there's a lot of seamstresses and whether it's cloth sellers, you know, one one person with their stall selling cloth or a guy who sells clothes for guys or tailor or seamstress for women.
Anna (28:17)
a tire, right? And so there's a lot of seamstresses and whether it's cloth sellers, you know, one person with their stall selling cloth or a guy who sells clothes for guys or a tailor or a seamstress for women, it
Jared (28:31)
affects a lot of different people because a few people are making money and it sounds great to us in the West that hey, here's something that we can, we're done with this, we'll just go send this on. And that can have a negative impact on the economy.
Anna (28:31)
affects a lot of different people because a few people are making money. And it sounds great to us in the West that, here's something that we can, we're done with this. We'll just go send this on. And that can have a negative impact on the economy.
Jared (28:46)
The other thing that I noticed, so I worked with about 200 farmers in looking at, help them to grow seed, whether it was corn.
Anna (28:46)
The other thing that I noticed, so I worked with about 200 farmers in looking at, helped them to grow seed, whether it was corn
Jared (28:57)
or soybean seed, or as rice and soybeans. And they could get paid two times to four times more by growing seed during the same work, maybe a little bit more work, but they could get paid a whole lot more than
Anna (28:57)
or soybean seed, or it rice and soybeans. And they could get paid two times to four times more by growing seed, doing the same work, maybe a little bit more work, but they could get paid a whole lot more than,
Christopher Swing (28:59)
you
Jared (29:13)
going out and growing the same crop out in the field. And we brought that to them. They said they wanted to do it, but they really didn't want to do the extra work. They didn't want to invest that.
Anna (29:13)
going out and growing the same crop out in the field. And we brought that to them. They said they wanted to do it, but they really didn't want to do the extra work. They didn't want to invest that.
So we didn't do enough time in asking what some of their goals were. And when they looked at this white guy, again, this comes back to a relationship issue. When they looked at the white guy with money and they thought, okay, this is money. And then when it didn't go quite like,
Jared (29:25)
So we didn't do enough time in asking what some of their goals were. And when they looked at this white guy, again, this comes back to a relationship issue. When they looked at the white guy with money and they thought, okay, this is money. And then when it didn't go quite like
they wanted, then it was just, well, we'll use the fertilizer and pesticides however we want. And they missed out on a bigger opportunity because the relationship hadn't been really set there versus when we've done some things in a positive
Anna (29:41)
as well we use the fertilizer and pesticides however we want and they missed out.
Jared (29:55)
context
like we mentioned whether it's Anna and Moses or whether it's with Zach and planting churches and now you know being able to coach 20 different pastors in our local area that came through positive relationships so I think
Christopher Swing (29:59)
you
Jared (30:08)
The money isn't the issue. is really getting in and asking the right questions for relationship. And money can be in Africa. Money is about relationship. It is here in the US too, but even more so in Africa. But if you don't spend that relationship time first, you're gonna miss what people really need. And they'll say, well, what I really need or what I can really do. And you won't know if they really can or not because you don't know them. So those are a couple things that I've noted in
our time living in gun.
Anna (30:39)
one.
Christopher Swing (30:39)
you
Jared (30:40)
you've got some good thoughts on this.
Anna (30:42)
I think one of the biggest things that small
businesses in Ghana need are they need opportunities to sell their goods. Making shea butter by hand is really common in our area. A lot of women do that kind of on the side to make some extra money. It is extremely labor intensive. But once they make shea butter, they can't really sell it within Tomal's
because everybody there has shea butter. It's the rest of the world that wants handcrafted shea butter, but they don't have the ability to sell their product. so co-ops that allow the women to make shea butter and then find contracts to sell the butter outside of the country really help the women a lot. I've seen a lot of women with big heads
Christopher Swing (31:27)
you
Anna (31:30)
head
pans full of shea butter sitting in their bedroom because they can't sell it. They don't know who wants to buy it. And if that was sitting in America, it would be worth $500, but they don't have anywhere to sell it. So co-ops definitely are big help to people.
Christopher Swing (31:48)
You know, Chris, you mentioned that I agree that Ghana is in a great position to grow in the next 50, 60 years, 100 years. It's really got to take off. The question is going to be, like it is here, how do people benefit? And we have a little different perspective as NGO workers.
Jared (31:48)
You know, Chris, you mentioned that I agree that Ghana is in a great position to grow in the next 50, 60 years, 100 years. It's really going to take off. The question is going to be like it is here. How do people benefit? you know, we have a little different perspective as NGO workers,
Anna (31:48)
You know, Chris, you mentioned that...
question is going to be, like it is here, how do people benefit?
Jared (32:08)
you working in non-government, non-profit.
How can we help lift a community? And one of the things that we see quite a bit is individuals who will succeed at the expense of their family or their community. And that doesn't fit in the African culture very well. And I can't speak to this really, really well, but it's a problem. I mean, the Western influence of materialism and not taking care of community, it's something Africa is really reckoning with.
Christopher Swing (32:13)
see part of that is.
you
Jared (32:35)
And as much as anything else, a lot of the extreme Islamic responses are about that in terms of culture conflict. And so I think we in the West need to really look and listen to African culture and look at how Africa can develop its own markets in a way that's going to lift up the whole boat.
Christopher Swing (32:50)
you
Jared (32:57)
Still allow people to succeed and I don't know what all that means. I'm like, I don't have it figured out but man I know that what we're doing right now isn't working because it we wind up with too many people hurt, know succeeding at the expense of vast expense of the others And so I don't know the answer but it is something that I think we in the West
need to listen to
Christopher Swing (33:15)
to listen to. Yeah, because one of the biggest problems that countries like Ghana face is that
Anna (33:18)
Yeah, because the biggest problems that countries like Ghana face is that
Christopher Swing (33:23)
their most intelligent
Anna (33:23)
their most intelligent, well-educated people leave Ghana to work in other places of the world, and they never come back. We call that the brain drain. And Ghana is a huge victim to the brain drain. And I think people are leaving because they can't find the opportunity within their
own country to rise up or to get ahead.
Christopher Swing (33:46)
Yeah, I mean, it's something that I think of regularly about in regards to how to make a difference in these countries that I visit regularly. it's like, you know, perfect example is speaking to M.A. Baba, you know, when rice and corn and all this stuff went through the roof, the initial reaction was, well, let's just dump a bunch from the U.S. in there.
Anna (33:46)
Yeah, I mean, it's something that I think of regularly about in regards to how many different
Jared (33:56)
you know, perfect example is speaking to Ahmed Baba, you know, when rice and corn and all that stuff went through the roof, the initial reaction was, well, it's just dumb lunch from the US in there.
Anna (33:59)
Speaking to Ahmed Abba, know, when rice and corn and that stuff went through the roof, the initial reaction was, well, it's just dumb lunch from the US in there.
And that's fine, and yes, we can do that.
Jared (34:11)
And that's fine. And yes, we can do
Christopher Swing (34:11)
And that's fine. And yes, we can do that. And
none of those farmers really expected to get paid as much as they're going to get paid for their rice or their corn right now. And a huge portion, for those who are listening and aren't used to that, a huge portion of it is international rice, especially. The corn is mostly local. They have local rice, but it seems like it's a second class product, unfortunately, comparative.
Jared (34:19)
or their corn right now. And a huge portion, for those who are listening and aren't used to that, a huge portion of it is international rice, especially. The corn is mostly local. They have local rice, but it seems like...
Anna (34:21)
And a huge portion for those who are listening and aren't used to that, a huge portion of it is international rice, especially. The corn is mostly local. They have local rice, but it seems like it's a second class product, unfortunately, comparative.
Jared (34:36)
second class product unfortunately comparative
Christopher Swing (34:41)
And that's in the domestic market. Like most of the Ghanaian
Anna (34:41)
And
Jared (34:41)
and that's in the domestic market like
Anna (34:41)
that's in the domestic market, like most of the...
the Ghanian people would choose to have an international rights versus a domestic rights and and how to fix that I don't know I'm not sure the inter workings and to be honest the extent of the technical knowledge that I have on domestic rights is it gets hard that's the technical
Christopher Swing (34:45)
people would choose to have an international rice versus a domestic rice. And how to fix that, I don't know. I'm not sure of the inner workings. And to be honest, the extent of the technical knowledge that I have on domestic rice is it gets hard. That's the technical expertise that I have in domestic rice. we'll leave it at that. But every time that
Jared (34:46)
choose to have an international rights versus a domestic rights and how to fix that I don't know I'm not sure.
the extent of the technical knowledge that I have on domestic prices, it gets harder. That's the technical.
Anna (35:06)
So we'll leave it at that. But every time that
Jared (35:06)
So we'll leave it at that. But every time that
we're presented with a challenge, we have a solution for it. The problem is that it has a detrimental result to someone. And let's be honest, none of us in this room are trying to solve problems for our own.
Anna (35:10)
we're presented with a challenge, we have a solution for it. The problem is that it has a detrimental result to someone. And let's be honest, none of us in this room are trying to solve problems for our own benefit at this point. mean, yes, we can do that. And yes, we can make a few.
Christopher Swing (35:10)
we're presented with a challenge, we have a solution for it. The problem is, is that it has a detrimental result to someone. And, I mean, let's be honest, none of us in this room are trying to solve problems for our own benefit at this point. I mean, yes, we could do that. And yes, we could make a few dollars
Jared (35:28)
Yes, we can do that.
Christopher Swing (35:31)
and everybody would be happy. But the problem is, that it would be detrimental to the ministry. And I think that's where
Jared (35:34)
problem.
Anna (35:34)
problem
is that it would be detrimental to the ministry.
Christopher Swing (35:40)
in order to do it as well. And I think, Jared, you bring up some great points. And my hope is that if there's a way to carry everyone at the same time, you could potentially end up without this huge dichotomy and net worth like we have in the United States. And I'm not saying that...
Anna (35:44)
I think Jerry, you bring up some great points and my hope is that if there's a way to carry everyone at the same time, you could potentially end up without this huge dichotomy and net worth like we have in the United States. And I'm not saying that that's
Jared (35:44)
think Jerry, you bring up some great points and my hope is that if there's a way to carry everyone at the same time, you could potentially end up without this huge dichotomy.
And I'm not saying that
that's the right thing to do.
Christopher Swing (36:08)
that that's the right thing to do, that's more of a, I guess I would
Anna (36:09)
the right thing to more of I guess I'll...
Christopher Swing (36:13)
argue, somewhat of a socialist strategy or something along those lines.
Jared (36:14)
social strategy or something along those
Anna (36:14)
social strategy or something along those lines.
Christopher Swing (36:17)
You know, the way that I would argue that there are pros and cons to how they handle their country. And there's just as many cons as there are pros. And I think what we have to figure out is how do we get more people the education? How do we get more people a vision to help them to invest and to
Anna (36:17)
you know, the way that, I would argue that there.
Jared (36:17)
you know, the way that I would argue that.
And there's just as many cons as there are pros. And I think what we have to figure out is...
Anna (36:23)
in country and there's just as many cons as there are pros and I think I think what we have to figure out is how do we get more people to education how do we get more people of vision to help them to invest and to
Jared (36:36)
How do we get more people a vision to help them to invest and to,
Anna (36:44)
you know they don't even have their own runs at this point I mean you think about multi-generational wealth of someone who
Jared (36:44)
you they don't even have to hit on runs at this point. mean, you think about multi-generational wealth of someone can hit a couple of base hits and just, you know, take themselves from complete poverty to just lower middle class.
Christopher Swing (36:45)
They don't even have to hit home runs at this point. I you think about multi-generational wealth of someone who can hit a couple of base hits and just take themselves from complete poverty to just lower middle class
Anna (36:52)
can hit a couple of base hits and just take themselves from complete poverty to just lower middle classes.
Christopher Swing (37:00)
would
be a huge win in that country. And with that setup, therefore educating their kids how to make that next step, I mean, you know.
Anna (37:02)
And with that setup, therefore educating their kids, like how to make that next step. I mean, you know,
Jared (37:03)
that setup, therefore educating their kids, like how to make that next step. I mean, you know,
Anna (37:11)
you think about 50 to 75 years, you're a lot of generations. And the impact that that has to a family is incalculable. Yeah. Well, so we've kind of put ourselves right in the middle of that. Where we live, Chris, you've
Jared (37:11)
you think about 50 to 75 years, you're a lot of generations, and the impact that that has to a family is incalculable. Well, so we've kind of put ourselves right in the middle of that.
Christopher Swing (37:11)
You think about 50 to 75 years, you're talking a lot of generations. And the impact that that has to a family is incalculable.
So we've kind of put ourselves right in middle of that. Where we live, I Chris, you've been to
Jared (37:26)
Where we live, I Chris, you've been
to our house. You know that we sit at the edge of Tomalee and our community, Tampekukuo, is one of these transition places. It's been a farming community, but it's becoming urban. And so we here, and I've worked with farming and is working with education.
Christopher Swing (37:28)
our house. You know that we sit in...
Anna (37:29)
You know that we sit
at the edge of Tomaly.
Christopher Swing (37:32)
community.
Jared (37:47)
The challenge right now, and in Tomalee, it's a metro area of probably more than a million people, and half the people are 16 years old or younger. So, when you talk about multi-generational building, it is gonna be about education and helping those students, because we're not farmland anymore.
to carry on what's in the past. So like you said, hitting singles, whether that's investing in real estate or if that's getting us up, you know, thinking of what success is. It used to be, I have so many acres, I'm going to keep farming it the way that my ancestors did. That's what was known to people our age.
So now it is what does financial stability and success mean for my family? And that's moving into a formal economy system that is gonna require education. It's gonna mean wealth is gonna have to get diversified somehow, whether it's, like I said, real estate or jobs that can buy real estate or jobs that buy investments, tools, whether those are bonds and CDs right now are pretty good investments in Ghana.
But yeah, you're right. We it's helping people to understand that there's there's going to be a different kind of financial stability in the future, and they don't feel that right now. I mean, they're they're feeling a lot of. There's a lot of nervousness in Ghana about what's happening in the future change because it's not a solid known.
entity and they don't have leaders who are encouraging them and helping them move forward. And so to your point, I mean, this is something if we as a church and we as people who care can talk about what stability looks like and give a different vision for that and a few tools. And again, we don't have to give them all the tools. They've got they've got tools at hand. Just help them pick those up and use them in a different way.
There's so much potential, not just for now, but for the future of Ghana and West Africa.
Anna (39:40)
One of the things that Developing Kids Ghana is doing
to hit right on this issue is we have a scholarship program to help college students. The majority of our students are first generation students to ever go to college. Most of them are coming from households where their parents are still illiterate. And so...
You can imagine if you can't read and write and you've never gone to school, you don't have the first idea how to get your child into college. You don't know how to help them. And you probably don't have the finances to help the student pay their fees and buy their books and
transport them to school, all of these things. And so we support about 45 students every year to go to college. And, you know, we build a relationship with those students. We don't just want them to graduate college. We want them to get jobs. you know, if we know of opportunities for them, we try and plug them in. We want them to transform their families. And we really try to emphasize how important that is to them.
It's important that you don't get an education, get a great job, and then just leave your family in the village to suffer while you go and build your, you know, middle income house in a city somewhere. And we talk about the responsibility that they have to keep educating the younger members of the family and how important lifting up the whole family really is once they are employed.
Chris (41:09)
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Christopher Swing (41:38)
So as we think about DKG and your guys' missions, kind of give us an update on what are you working on? And then, and I said I wasn't going to ask multiple questions, but I'm going to anyways. So what are you working on? And then ultimately, how can we participate?
Anna (41:38)
So.
Jared (41:38)
So
as we think...
Christopher Swing (41:59)
So developing.
Anna (41:59)
So Developing Kids Ghana
has a library and a computer lab in Tampe Kukuo, and we serve about 300 students every week with library and computer lab classes. We realize that our community needs, and not just our community, but Tamale needs a high-end junior high school. High-end, not just like we want people to pay huge sums
of money to come, but they need a place where teachers are really well trained to teach and prepare students for the future. Fifty percent of junior high students at the end of junior high read at a third grade level. The rest of junior high students are below that. That's a problem.
Teachers and schools do not understand how to teach really well. And so that's that that was an issue that we decided we wanted to confront. So we are starting a developing kids gone in junior high school. We chose junior high because it's pivotal for the education of every student at the end of junior high. If the student is well equipped with reading skills, with math skills, science skills, they can probably get to college.
But if they're struggling in one of those areas, they likely will drop out of school after junior high. They may go to vocational school. Girls may get married at a young age, especially in the Bush communities. It...
It feels like a lot of failure to them. Even though they can pick up job skills in other areas, it's really difficult. And so we decided we're going to launch a school where we're going to blend some American curriculum with the Ghanaian curriculum. Our system isn't perfect either. Students struggle to read in America. And there are things that Ghana does really well, and there's things that America does well. So we want to blend the two together.
want to give an opportunity for students and teachers from the United States to come over and share ideas with our Ghanaian teachers. Some teacher training and collaboration to help build up the teachers in our school. And usually when we have those types of events, we invite teachers from all the surrounding schools. So it's not just our students and our community that we want to benefit. We want to lift up
all the communities around us as much as we can. So we actually, we need a lot of support in different ways as we launch this project. The building is gonna be a three-story building, 30,000 square feet, about 18 classrooms, complete with things like, you know, library, computer lab, science lab, cafeteria, multi-purpose room.
And we need to raise about 1.1 million. And as a global worker, that amount feels...
It feels big. It's insurmountable in some ways. When you look at the budget that we operate on as an organization, right now, DKG runs on $1,500 a month. Now, we get some special gifts throughout the year that help us with different programs. But if you can imagine $1,500 a month, and we run all of our programs, we pay four full-time employees, and we need to make a jump to raise $1.1 million.
To be honest, when the architect came to me and gave me that price tag, I wasn't sure I was going to go forward with the project. I went back to my staff and we were discussing it and they said, mama, don't worry. We need to keep doing this. There are people in America who could just write one check and finish the project. I said, well, you're right, but I'm not sure I know any of those people.
But all along, our attitude has just been, this is God's project. He laid it on our heart and He's opened so many doors for us to get land.
that we know that he's going to provide. And how that happens is up to him. It's his responsibility to provide. It's our responsibility to steward well what is given. And just to get the word out that this is going to be a huge project. We're going to enroll 550 students a year.
The majority of them are going to be probably Muslims for a number of reasons. One is we live in a city that's 90 to 95 percent Muslim. Most of those families have the business, they have the money, and they value education. We see this as a great opportunity to mold and shape those students, to give them the character and the faith and the life skills that they need to impact the north of Ghana in a lot of
very positive ways. And so we can see that this is going to be just a huge project that's going to have a big, big impact, not just in our little community, but on our city. And our eventual goal is to have a boarding school situation. We have to get some more land in order to build dormitories. But at that point, we can draw students from anywhere in the country. And
that's going to be really exciting.
Jared (47:02)
A little bit of the money side, I'll mention there's always need for money. I we're missionaries and nonprofit for ongoing expenses and salaries and things like that. But I wanna talk about two other things. I wanna invite you to just pray with us. The best way to do that is to sign up with our newsletter. We send that out about once a month. And it does a good job on Facebook as well. You could follow along there.
Anna (47:02)
little bit of the money side. I'll mention.
Jared (47:25)
We value people who the Holy Spirit puts together with us. And he's done this several times. It's not an accident, we don't think at all, when God brings people together who...
He's aligning hearts all the time. And so the best way to get our heart aligned to the Lord, and that's what we ask for you to do, is just to pray. So would you pray with us and for us? And you know, there's certainly churches and there's people and every issue of our newsletter has things going on, whether it's a library or church planting or our family. So we invite you to that.
The second thing that I would invite you to do is to partner in you as a person and to come and visit.
When we do a trip we don't do short-term trips where you're not gonna go build something We have people we can pay to go build something if we want to build something we're asking for money We don't want your hand on the on the hammer Okay, what we want is we want you to meet the people that we work with that we live with we will take you and you'll spend time in their houses You'll eat family dinners like we do you'll you'll get to go out and just live life with us and our friends
because we want to invite you to see where God is meeting our family, who now that family is extended in Ghana. It doesn't matter your background, if you're a teacher, great, we can plug into that. Business man, great, we can find a way to meet people. you're a farmer or a pharmacist or a student, it doesn't really matter, but if God has...
put it on your heart to make a trip. do invite, consider this an invitation to come and check out what the Lord might be speaking to you with us. And we'll also offer this. It's easy to sit here and ask for things, but we also want to offer that we could share with you, if you need some encouragement, just about...
If you want somebody to pray with you, we are very happy to do that. And there's something about international leadership or if there's something in your church that you just want to talk about. Whatever way that we could do that, encourage your men or women in your church. You know, we want to serve you in your business, your church, your family, because mission isn't a one way street.
We as missionaries get to stand in the middle and it's a chance for us. We just want you to know we look forward to being away, to unlocking a blessing that God might have in your life either by giving or receiving. So those are some ways that we want to be available to folks, Chris.
Christopher Swing (49:53)
What an amazing impact that they're having and you can take my word for it. We've financially supported them. Just to clarify too, so there's no question about the authenticity of this. We didn't pay them to come here. They didn't pay us to come here. This is just for the benefit of sharing what's going on in the world. We want you guys to know what's happening.
And I wanted you to meet some people who have obviously impacted me because of what they're trying to do in the world for people who they don't owe anything to. This is them following their hearts and their Christian beliefs and trying to make a difference. And the one thing that's really interesting about these guys too is that they're trying to make
a difference not only just in the faith oriented aspects of the mission that they're coming alongside the people in the communities that they're trying to impact because for all of you who aren't necessarily faith oriented, it's really hard to impact someone's spirituality if they don't have their basic needs met. mean, if you go back to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, you don't know how you're going to eat, it's really hard to be focused on, you know,
giving praises to God. So I love the organization. I've spent two times there already. We have a trip planned this summer, kind of to Jared and Anna's point. You know, you can take our word for it and you can support the organization. I would heavily encourage you to do that as I do. Or if you don't necessarily want to take our word for it, you can come with us and you can go and experience
Ghana, and you won't come back the same, I can promise you that. You know, it's a unique country filled with unique people, but it leaves a lasting impression on every single person that I've been over there with. Well, Ian went with us, so we have to be careful about these statements.
Pretty much everybody that went over there came back a different person, a better person, I would say. And we'll just leave Ian in the other category. But no, I'm so grateful that you guys take the time to come over here, traveled all the way over here from Indiana to be able to sit down and have this conversation. I really want the listeners to understand that the impact
of the people that we know is global. And we can choose to pray for them, we can invest alongside of them, but the lives are being changed all around the world. And I'm grateful for people that are willing to make a commitment to do that. Thank you for joining us today for Faithful. We are super glad to be able to have the opportunity to come and talk to you.
to fall alongside you and to grow you in your leadership. My hope is that from today's episode that you realize that you have to decide where you're going, that you can make a difference locally, you can make a difference globally, you can make a difference wherever it is that you choose, but you must actually choose where you're gonna make a difference if you want to make that
So thank you for being here and we'll see you all soon.
