Faithful
Welcome to Faithful, the podcast where inspirational leadership meets strategic insight in business. Join us each week as we explore the stories, strategies, and wisdom of industry leaders and visionaries who embody resilience, integrity, and faith in their pursuits.
In each episode, we explore transformative leadership principles, actionable strategies, and the power of faith in navigating business challenges. Whether you’re an aspiring entrepreneur, an established leader, or simply looking for motivation to elevate your journey, "Faithful" is your go-to resource for inspiration and growth.
Tune in to discover how to lead purposefully, cultivate a thriving team culture, and harness your unique vision to make a lasting impact. Let’s embark on a growth, empowerment, and faithful leadership journey together.
Faithful
Navigating Challenges in Cross-Cultural Ministry (Ryan VandeLinde)
Summary
In this conversation, Ryan VandeLinde shares his journey into full-time mission work in the Dominican Republic, discussing the challenges and rewards of cross-cultural ministry. He emphasizes the importance of language, cultural understanding, and building deep relationships within the community. Ryan also highlights the significance of empowering local leaders and the development of 'kingdom businesses' that meet community needs while fostering self-sufficiency. The discussion touches on the complexities of raising a family in a foreign country, the transition back to the U.S., and the future vision for the Eastern Dominican Christian Mission (EDCM).
Takeaways
Ryan's journey into mission work began in high school.
Cross-cultural experiences can profoundly impact one's perspective on ministry.
Language barriers can hinder relationship-building in a new culture.
Loneliness is a common challenge for missionaries.
Effective leadership involves empowering local leaders.
Kingdom businesses aim to meet community needs while promoting self-sufficiency.
Prayer support is crucial for mission work.
Financial support is necessary for sustaining mission initiatives.
Building deep relationships is essential for effective ministry.
The future vision for EDCM includes expanding church plants and community services.
Sound Bites
"Loneliness is a big challenge."
"We want them to succeed."
"We always need prayer."
Chapters
00:00 Introduction and Mission Work Overview
05:47 Transitioning to Full-Time Mission Work
13:42 Cultural and Language Barriers
17:59 Raising a Family in the Dominican Republic
22:26 Transitioning Back to the U.S.
27:44 The Start of the Party
34:21 The Vision Behind Kingdom Businesses
40:36 Leadership Principles: Equip and Empower
47:04 Future Vision for EDCM
52:27 How to Support EDCM
Faithful - https://faithful.buzzsprout.com/
Please feel free to check out the organizations that support us:
Vantage Surgical Solutions - https://vantage.healthcare/
Vantage Surgical Solutions Careers - https://vantage.healthcare/careers/
Chris Contact Info - https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherswing/
And the ones we support:
Missions:
Developing Kids Ghana - https://developingkidsghana.com/
Eastern Dominican Christian Mission - https://easterndominican.org/
Broadway Christian Church - https://broadwaycc.churchcenter.com/home/
57/70 Task Force: https://5770taskforce.org/
Christopher Swing (00:00)
Welcome to Faithful, the podcast where we explore the intersection of leadership, faith, and impact. I'm your host, Christopher Swing, president and CEO of Vantage Surgical Solutions. Through thoughtful conversations with business leaders, missionaries, and change makers, we uncover the principles that guide their work and connect them to timeless wisdom. In season one, we're diving into the foundational organizations and experiences that shape my own leadership journey. Whether you're a leader in business,
faith or your community, this conversation is packed with inspiration and practical wisdom. Thank you for joining me on this journey of discovering how faith and leadership intersect in meaningful ways. Let's dive into the episode.
Christopher Swing (00:43)
Today's guest is Ryan Vandalin. And Ryan is a good friend of mine. I met him in 2012, actually, in the Dominican Republic for the first time. And that was Kelsey and I's first mission trip to the Dominican Republic. And since then, we've had the opportunity to go at least five or six times and been blessed by the people in that country and also by Ryan.
It's really important for us to have the opportunity to show you the investment in the leadership that happens from US-based Christian missions in places like the Dominican Republic. And so I pray and hope that you guys will be uplifted by Ryan and what they're doing there and that you'll see to potentially even support them. And so with that,
Ryan, welcome to the show.
Ryan VandeLinde (01:31)
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Christopher Swing (01:33)
So it's kind of a, you know, it's a crazy thought for most of us to transition to mission work. So give us some sort of an idea of where that came from in your world and how you decided to pursue missions and then maybe even how you got connected to the Dominican Republic, if you would.
Ryan VandeLinde (01:53)
Yeah, sure. I mean, it's actually a pretty clear story for me. I grew up in Virginia. Grew up in a small church.
I was in high school and my older brother is about four years older than me. From a young age, my older brother always wanted to be a preacher, which I think is unique. I don't think most people in sixth grade decide they want to be a preacher, but that's what he always wanted to do. And he just felt, and he is today, a preacher. And when I was a junior in high school, my brother was out at a Christian university preparing to be a preacher.
I didn't know what I was going to do. Everybody starts talking about college and all of that in high school, putting pressure on you. The one thing that I knew I did not want to do was be a preacher. The reason was, and I grew up in a small, at that time a small church in Virginia, and I would go every Sunday, every Sunday night at that time. They still had services. Honestly, I've been there my whole life and just...
the sermon of that part of the service was usually the most boring part for me as a kid growing up and I just knew I didn't want to ever do that job. know, want, there had to be something else. And as I became a junior in high school, I wasn't opposed to doing Christian ministry or non-profit organization or anything But just not that role. And so my youth minister at the time, he decided my junior year to take us, the youth group, on a mission trip, global international mission trip.
We went to England, which everybody always laughs at me because it's not Africa or the Dominican, it's England. Honestly, it was an awesome trip. I don't know how much mission work we really did, but it was a really, really good trip. Here's what it did for me. It opened my eyes to cross-cultural ministry.
So it showed me for the very first time there is ministry to be done that's not just in the pulpit at your local church in your local town in the United States. one of the stories I always tell people from that trip is we went down there, and remember I'm a junior in high school and me and my buddies, right, all of us, and so.
We were going to do a vacation Bible school for this new community. There's a new community of houses and they have a field. The way they built the neighborhoods there in that area, there's a neighborhood and they left a big field right in the middle of the neighborhood and one church, some church, some denomination is going to get access to that and be able to build the church building there. And so the missionary we were working with, he was praying that it would be them.
So we got access to use that field for a week to do vacation Bible schools, to do activities for kids. And so we went to the field and the first day and the grass was about three feet tall. I mean, how are we supposed to do a VBS there? Myself and my other, what am I 15 years old? My 15 year old buddy, Dave, we started walking around house to house, knocking on doors of people we don't know and asking if they have a lawnmower that we could borrow to mow the field. And I remember somebody gave me a John Deere riding mower.
and I rode that thing down and we cut that field and we had VBS every single day there and tons and tons of kids came and it was just the first time that opened my eyes to to cross-cultural, I know that's England, but it's still cross-cultural mission work and then soon after that man I actually met somebody that was going to Haiti a lot and I started going to the country of Haiti every six months. I just save up my money go to Haiti every six months of working working orphanage.
And then I did some work in Brazil during college. Just had a passion for this cross-cultural work and was in Brazil, worked up on the Amazon jungle, up on the Amazon River, lived on a boat going village to village. And just, that's really how it got started.
And God just opened my eyes to that as a junior in high school. And it just was, it's really how I tick. I really still today absolutely love working cross-culturally, even more so than just in a, you know, typical American church. And there's nothing wrong with that. That's great. There's a lot of ministry to be done, but that's just kind of where God has, that's where he has taken me. And that's kind of my journey. So.
Christopher Swing (05:47)
So what was it like transitioning really to full-time mission work? What does that process even look like? What's your education, and how did you then get connected to the DR?
Ryan VandeLinde (05:54)
Yeah.
Yeah, sure. So I got connected to the Dominican Republic to our mission, Eastern Dominican Christian Mission when I was in college. When I was in college, I had a professor that taught a lot of our cross-cultural, intercultural studies classes. he had been a missionary in Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic for 30 some years. And he told us a lot of stories. And of course, at that point, that's where I thought God was taking me. And so he actually left
While I was in college, he left as a professor and went back to the Dominican Republic, to a whole new part of the country and started Eastern Dominican Christian Mission.
So fast forward four, five, six years, I was actually in ministry in the States as a youth minister. And I wanted to take teenagers on an international mission trip to see if it could have the impact on them like it did on me. And ended up going to the Dominican Republic, working with that professor. So that's really how we got connected with Eastern Dominican Christian Mission. And so,
when I was on one of those mission trips with the teenagers in the DR, the missionary asked me very politely, said, hey, why are you in youth ministry? I really thought God was taking you to international or cross-cultural ministry. And my answer, my wife and I at that point, our answer was we are waiting for God to open the door. When he opens the door and we really feel this is where he wants us to go, that's where we're gonna go. And so I think that missionary felt that was God opening the door to invite us to come
to work alongside he and his wife because they were going to retire in the next few years. They wanted a younger couple to take over. So then we decided to transition to full-time work and that transition is tough. Doing a week-long mission trip is one thing and you can do that many, many times a year. Most of us can go to some pretty rough places for one week at a time. But to sell everything you have, to resign from your job, get that all up and move
to another country you don't know much about and to live there is a whole different thing. And so that transition for us was, I was a youth minister so I had to resign from the church and leave a lot of people we loved. And at that point my wife and I had a little two year old and take the grandbaby away from the grandparents if you will and move away. And so that is definitely a transition that needs, you need to clothe that in prayer.
and lots of thought before you do that.
Chris (08:26)
Faithful is proudly sponsored by Vantage Surgical Solutions, where excellence meets innovation in advanced healthcare solutions. With a foundation built on integrity, creativity, and commitment, Vantage empowers leaders to shape the future, just as we explore leadership through faith on the podcast. Vantage Surgical Solutions, standing for excellence, leading advanced healthcare solutions.
Christopher Swing (08:54)
this is in England, right? So I mean, we don't speak the same language. there's just a lot of things that go into that decision. And it's, that's a big commitment.
Ryan VandeLinde (09:05)
Yeah, absolutely. mean, obviously in England they speak English, so it's a little easier. In the Dominican they speak Spanish, which at that point my wife and I did not speak Spanish. So, you you move to another culture, you have a lot of cultural challenges and language barriers and the Dominican Republic is a developing nation where England is not. know, England is just like the United States, so it's a lot more similar than moving to the Dominican Republic.
Christopher Swing (09:34)
So you kind of led us right into the next question that I for you. And that is, what are some of the challenges that we don't realize in moving to a country like the Dominican Republic? And I think you've kind of hinted about them not being a first world country and not that there's anything, there's nothing against being a third world country, but it's the reality of the environment in which they operate.
Ryan VandeLinde (09:57)
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean that list we could talk for hours about the challenges honestly. I mean one of them that is obvious but I don't think people truly understand is the language barrier. When you go to, when you go on a, a lot of people go to Cancun, you know, vacation for a week or Punta Cana for a week and you hear the Spanish and you're like, this is kind of fun, I'm gonna try to use my Spanish from high school and you can do that for a week.
Christopher Swing (10:02)
you
Ryan VandeLinde (10:24)
But when you live there and you realize that the people around you do not speak English, and the only way to have meaningful conversations and deep relationships with people is to learn their language. They're not going to learn English.
and then use that to have a relationship with you. You have to learn their language. You are in their culture, you're in their country, and they don't have access to English. many of us took, like I said, we took Spanish in high school, but we still don't know how to say three things. And it's the same way there with English. They know how to say hi, good morning, how are you, my name is, you know, that's about it. And so that language, that challenge of relationships.
Christopher Swing (10:53)
That's not the same.
Ryan VandeLinde (11:06)
and that the language barrier that really, it really puts some stress in your life because you moved to a country, you've moved away from your friends, you've moved away from your family, you've moved away from your support group, and you find yourself in a country where no one, where you don't speak their language.
And in order to build new relationships, have to speak their language, otherwise all of your conversations are very surface. You know, it's all just, how are you? Good to see you, glad you're doing well. But when you really talk about having relationships with people, friendships, you have to speak.
their languages. That's the number one barrier that we had to deal with was we didn't want to just go to the Dominican Republic and just say hi to everybody all the time. We wanted to really get into their lives, to really get into the culture, and to really help make a difference and guide and direct and bring some leadership. And in order to do that,
we had to learn Spanish. So we actually spent our first 12 months on the mission field. We actually went to Costa Rica and for 12 months we were in a Spanish language institute that's mainly for Christian business people, Christian missionaries that are going to go to another country and they taught us Spanish every single day for 12 months. Now we did that, not everybody does that. I highly recommend it because I think you can be much more effective if you
truly speak the language. And so that was the number one barrier, man, for us was that you're leaving that whole support system you have, you got to start that over with people that don't speak your language. also they didn't, the people in the Dominican did not grow up like I grew up in Southwest Virginia.
We just didn't grow up the same. It doesn't matter even what class you're from, if you will, what financial status you're from. We just did not grow up the same way. So here we are now in their culture trying to understand them, trying to understand their language, trying to find our support group again and start that over. And so those are some of those challenges that come with that. so one word I would say, I'll finish with this, one word I will say that comes with
that
transition is loneliness. And you don't think of that much because you moved to another country and Latin America, they're very open, they're very friendly to your face, but those aren't real deep relationships at first. And so you start feeling kind of lonely. You and your spouse and your kids or whoever you're with, you can be pretty lonely because you don't really have any friends all of a sudden. You don't have family around. So those are some of the challenges we had to deal with.
Christopher Swing (13:42)
I mean, one of the things that comes to mind, mean, that's a great thought. I'd never really connected dots between the language and the depth of your relationships, but it's so true. I we have, I think about our relationships even with the people in the mission, right? And the people who speak English have a lot deeper relationships with us because we can connect easier. We can have those harder conversations.
it's tougher with those who don't speak English. And unlike you, who is extremely fluent, and I'm pretty sure you dream sometimes in Spanish, I don't have that luxury because I'm that high school two or three years of Spanish, and it doesn't teach you enough to be really effective in those environments. So.
Ryan VandeLinde (14:16)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Christopher Swing (14:30)
So thinking about, and I don't want this to go too crazy, but thinking about all those challenges that you deal with, how do you stay motivated? How do you keep your teams motivated through all that? mean, it's daunting. I think about the challenges that we have in the US, and I think you pointed, it's not that we don't have challenges in the US. We just have the challenges that we have in the US, plus all of those cultural things, plus all those language things, plus all, I mean, just.
there's just a lot of additional layers in that. And so how do you stay motivated? How do you keep your teams motivated? You know, how do you, how do you build that organization that, you know, the first time that something goes wrong, they don't say, time to go home. You know, we, this isn't going to work.
Ryan VandeLinde (15:14)
Yeah, well there's a couple ways I think I do that. First of all, our team, our team in the Dominican Republic, all of my leaders are Dominican or Haitian. So my wife and I were the only Americans.
involved in the mission. Now currently we have a Dominican, one of our main Dominican leaders, he has married an American woman, okay? But outside of us, we've never actually gone out and recruited other Americans to come and work in the DR with us full-time. Now you come a week at a time, two weeks at a time, that's great.
But we've never gone out and recruited other Americans to come and work full time because of that very reason. Because there are lot of things that Americans, we have to learn about working in the DR before we can actually get anything done. Therefore, our team is primarily Dominican and Haitian, which means some of these things I was just talking about, these hurdles, these obstacles, are not hurdles or obstacles for my team. They are just normal day-to-day life.
That's all they have known. They've never known how it works in the United States. They still don't know how it works in the United States. So that's not an obstacle they have to overcome. So one of the ways that we do this is I'm really big on leadership. Somebody has said that everything rises and falls with leadership. And there's a lot of truth to that.
I have for years focused on leadership training. Equipping and empowering, the two words I always use, And equip the nationals, the Dominicans and Haitians, and then empower them to do it. And one of my leaders, his name is Franklin, I we've been together for 17 years. 17 years we've been together and so we completely trust each other. We know what each other's gonna say. I know if I bring a new idea, I already kinda know what he's gonna think about it.
kind of thing. But because of that, he actually helps me stay motivated when I get frustrated with some cultural things. When I get frustrated with some...
some of these obstacles or barriers, he reminds me, hey Ryan, it's just how it is here. He reminds me that I'm getting frustrated over something I don't really need to get frustrated about. And that's actually really encouraging to me to have a good team around me that I can trust that's gonna hold me accountable, that's also gonna just help guide me and direct me even though I'm the leader, I'm the main leader, I'm the executive director. I trust them, kind of my leadership team that I have.
trust them thoroughly and they help me understand things culturally because once again, even learning their language and living there for a long time, I was not raised there. There's still things that I will never truly understand about the culture because it's not my native culture.
Christopher Swing (17:59)
Yeah, that makes sense. So I'm going to turn this a little bit, let's talk a little bit about you personally being a missionary in the DR. What was it like raising a family in the DR?
Ryan VandeLinde (18:13)
right at 10 years in country. When my wife and I moved to the DR, like I said, we had a two year old, I guess. And while we were there, we had two more children. Raising a family there honestly was probably the hardest thing we did.
If my wife were here today, she'd have a really good answer for this one. But my answer is it was really, really hard in some aspects. Here's what I mean by that. Where we lived in the city of La Romana, it's a city of about 300,000 people, but it's not a modern city at all. Our children...
did not have the opportunities that American children have. In America, you can have, if you want to take piano lessons, can do that, or drum lessons, or be in the band at school, or you want to be on a soccer team, or a football team, or a baseball team, or a softball team, or whatever sport you want to play. There's a rec league, you pay a little bit of money. It's going to be pretty organized. It's going to be pretty safe.
Well, we didn't have any of that. My kids there in the DR did not have any of those opportunities. We literally had to search out for my oldest son, at that time I guess maybe six or seven, eight, maybe something like that, okay. We had to search out a soccer league just for him to play in. And it was actually, we had, it's a long story, but it was actually with,
football club Barcelona and they came into the really, really wealthy, wealthy, wealthy, wealthy neighborhood and they actually put together a club that cost a ton of money and it was just for the wealthy of the wealthy. And we ended up putting our son in that program because it was the only thing available where we knew it was gonna be organized and safe enough for our child, our only American in the whole city pretty much.
is the only place he could go and be safe. So that was a challenge for us because our kids, raising our kids there, they didn't have the opportunities that Americans have that we really take for granted in the United States. I mean, we really do. And so that was really, really hard on me as a dad. I would go outside and throw baseball with my son knowing that he'll never be on a team or ever have a chance to ever actually be in a game.
And he loved it. My son, my oldest son there, he'd play basketball in the neighborhood and I would go down and watch him sometimes, the neighborhood boys and...
I mean it was like no blood, no foul basketball. It was rough and tough. And because he's always, always, always, always was the only foreigner, he was the only American ever at his school with 500 kids and at church and everywhere, he's the only American. Then you have, there is racism and there is discrimination. they go to pick up, at school they go to pick teams and you watch your son constantly not get picked. Even though in that case,
and honestly he was one of the best athletes. They wouldn't pick him because he wasn't one of them. And you watch that as a dad and that just, it just tears you apart. Tears you apart. raising our family there for me was one of the hardest things. Now on the positive side, because the culture is not, they're not quite as task oriented as we are as Americans.
time is a little bit more fluid and so if I wanted to take a couple hours one afternoon and just take my family to the beach we drive right down to we're on the Caribbean beach we just drive down to the beach and go to the beach for a few hours which is really really nice because in United States you just don't always have that that time you know you got a clock in you got a clock out that kind of thing and so that aspect was good we could take time to be together as a family
The hardest part for me was just inside our house, our kids felt safe. As soon as you step outside the doors, they don't feel safe and they felt like they had to fight for everything. And that was really, really tough, especially as they started getting older. It was really tough to watch.
Christopher Swing (22:06)
So you're now back in the US, and you're managing your team remotely. And you're giving your family, which I'm completely supportive of, given your family the opportunity to live a normal lifestyle. And I think that's important, that if we can't take care of our own families, how do we take care of the church?
There's also a challenge doing that, right? So mean, now you've got a lot of those issues that you had before and now a lot of distance and you have to rely a lot more on the team that's on the ground to get things done. Are you guys happy? Has that been a good transition for you? mean, obviously for the kids has been great, I'm sure. And probably for you and Aaron as well, but.
Ryan VandeLinde (22:30)
course.
Yeah.
Christopher Swing (22:53)
You know, there's gives and takes in every decision, right? It's not like it's all just wins.
Ryan VandeLinde (22:56)
Right.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's so many answers to that question. Yes, it's been great for our children. I truly believe raising them in the United States is better for them than raising them in the Dominican Republic.
I think it's been good for my wife and myself in many ways. It's been really, really good. Of course, we have more of support system here. We can see friends and family, you know, as often as you'd like kind of thing. That's really good. I would say some of the difficulties is, I mean, one of the transitions back to the United States was we had to learn how to live pretty fast-paced lives again because I think we had...
we had really become Latinos. If we didn't get it done today, we'd get it done mañana. And that was just always how it was. so as soon as we get back into the United States and in the business world, it's, hey, this has got to be done today. It's got to be done by five. That took us a little while. People, we got back to the States with our kids, and everybody's talking about play dates.
I'd never heard of the phrase playdate. I've never that that that while we're in the Dominican Republic, that's something that happened here in the United States at somebody somewhere developed and designed, whatever. Right. So we came back and we were we're asking families trying to get to know people. Hey, would you like to hang out? You know, our kids go to school together and they would say, well, let's let's make a playdate. Let's look at the calendar and make a playdate. And we thought, I meant like this afternoon. Can you just hang out?
Christopher Swing (24:04)
Okay.
Yeah, can't we just go?
Ryan VandeLinde (24:20)
Yeah, what do you mean? literally we have to put it on the calendar because for 10 years we've been just, hey, let's do it this afternoon. Okay. And everybody just kind of does it. So it's been really...
Christopher Swing (24:30)
Well, let's talk about
that, because you couldn't put that on the calendar in the DR. That would disappear. Nobody could live that way. If you said, hey, Victor and Haiti, we want to go to dinner two weeks from tomorrow, they would look at you like.
Ryan VandeLinde (24:34)
No.
Yeah, exactly. I mean, that'd be a long way. In general, they don't think quite that far out. That's a generalization, okay? That's not every one of them, but many of them, it's kind of week to week and day to day. And so if you want something, say, hey, how about this afternoon at four? okay, I can do that. So, right.
Christopher Swing (24:50)
Hahaha!
there's nothing wrong with that, right? mean, in a lot
of instances, I think you've you kind of gleaned an idea that it's very freeing, you know, I forget what exactly you said around time, but I think you kind of minimize really the actual fluidity of time there. Because, you know, I've been on a lot of trips and I know how
focused you are to give an absolutely amazing experience to your teams that come. But I know it never works out the way that you plan it. And so it's just part of this enjoyment that we all have coming from a very regimented schedule. Now, I can tell you, I don't know if Kelsey enjoys that, but I really enjoy that part of it. I like the.
Ryan VandeLinde (25:52)
Yeah.
Christopher Swing (25:55)
You know what, if we get up and the battery in the truck is dead and we've got to do something different, it will be fine. And every experience is unique and it's why we're there and we live the life that everybody else does. And there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, there's actually a lot of freedom there.
Ryan VandeLinde (26:12)
Yeah.
So it's interesting because my wife is much more fluid with time, you know, if she shows up 20 minutes late. She's like, I mean, okay, so we started a few minutes late. what's the big deal? She's just much, I'm not saying she's always late to everything, but she's just much more comfortable in that than I am. I'm a little bit more...
We gotta get this done, we gotta get this done. So in the Dominican Republic, actually, my wife really thrived because we were just like, you're with your people here, you know? Because if you say church starts or a business meeting starts at 10 a.m., yeah, right.
Christopher Swing (26:44)
Mm.
Ryan VandeLinde (26:53)
they start getting dressed at their house at 10 a.m. I'll give you an example of that, man. We went to the first birthday, first kids birthday party we ever went to. You know, our kids are at school in the DR and one of his friends, they invite us to the birthday party. And I don't remember what time it started. I'm gonna say four o'clock in the afternoon. They invited us to come to their house at four o'clock. Well, we said, well, we know that Dominicans don't come on time. So we showed up at 4.30 thinking we're late.
At 430 we were the first people there and they were still decorating the house and decorating the yard that it was going to be in. So we went in and we helped decorate. We were decorating with relatives by the way. The kid wasn't there and the parents weren't there. We were like the grandparents and cousins so we just started decorating.
Slowly between 430 and 530 people started showing up to the party. Do you know at 630 the mom came out with the kid finally?
And the mom had gone, she'd done her hair, she got a special dress and all this. 6.30! It was like two and a half to three hours after the party started that the party actually started. Well at that point my wife and I were worn out. You know, we're listening. One thing I didn't mention is when you don't speak Spanish for a while, you listen to it constantly. It actually drains you. We're like worn out and then the party hasn't even started yet. But that's kind of time there. And so I will say being back in the US,
Christopher Swing (28:13)
you out. yeah.
Ryan VandeLinde (28:24)
It's been overall, it's been really, really good for my family. It has been very challenging.
more challenging to run my team in the Dominican from afar. It just is. You can do Zoom conferences, you can do all of that. I go down several times a year. It's not the same as living there, driving over to their house and, hey, I need a meeting with you this afternoon and driving over and talking to them, right? So we've had to readjust all of our leadership structure in order to stay effective there. And it's working. It's definitely absolutely working.
It's just a little more challenging. We just have to do it differently and I have to have even more patience sometimes.
Christopher Swing (29:00)
Yeah. Well, and two, I mean, let's not minimize the work that you guys are doing. the mission has grown significantly more complex from 2012 to today. I mean, because I remember the first time that we went down, you we stayed in that little hotel not too far from Victor's house. And the building was, you know, at best four walls and a tin roof. And,
Ryan VandeLinde (29:18)
yeah.
Yeah.
Christopher Swing (29:28)
And that's a lot different today than what it was then.
Ryan VandeLinde (29:32)
Yeah, mean absolutely. We've just grown so much. You know, we went from, you know, start with one church plant and now we're working on churches eight and nine and our...
We have a water filtration plant that filters water for probably about, I don't know, thousands of people because everybody has to buy water in the Dominican Republic. And so we have that water plant in a very, very impoverished area. We have our medical clinic, as I just mentioned, it's in that same impoverished area. as I mentioned, we're building the building right now and still looking for some funding to buy some of the equipment in that building where we're going to have offer a lot of different
a lot of different medical needs there that we're going to try to help take care of those medical needs in that community. We have a Christian school also that we started. We call these our kingdom businesses. In Christian school we have over 600, almost 650 kids in that school this year getting an education. Number one, learning how to read and write. Because when we first started we had fourth graders coming to us. They didn't know how to read and write. So learning how to read and write, learning, getting an education. And then we're a Christian organization so we teach them the Bible as well.
their Bible class. the mission has just grown and grown and grown. Obviously that takes a little bit more leadership all around just to continue leading that.
Christopher Swing (30:54)
So talk a little bit about how you guys have transitioned into what I think, if I remember right, you called them kingdom businesses. And what was the original vision behind that? What are you trying to accomplish, and are you trying to accomplish it? I think the one thing that if I could give you, I don't know if I could praise you enough, but in that sense, you're meeting people.
Ryan VandeLinde (31:08)
Yeah.
Christopher Swing (31:22)
where their needs are first, right? And so I think there's some, you know, it kind of gets back to Maslow's hierarchy, right? If you can't meet their most basic needs, how can we meet their spiritual needs? And so I just like to hear what your thoughts are there.
Ryan VandeLinde (31:25)
Bye.
Right.
Yeah, I mean it really comes down to, you know, in the Bible, Jesus feeding the 5,000. You know, Jesus was going to preach, He was going to speak, and all these people were together, and He realized it was meal time, they didn't have any food. And honestly, He can sit there and teach and preach, but if they don't have any food, they're all going be going, what are we going to eat? You know, whatever. And so, He fed them first. So, out in Punta Cana region, it's actually called Beron,
We had started a church plant and honestly we just weren't gaining much traction. Maybe 20, 25 people were coming to the church, just not. It just wasn't working after two, three years and.
We just weren't quite sure what to do and the preacher there, Franklin, the guy that's been with me for 17 years, he asked to have a meeting with me probably same day. Hey, come meet with me today. But I went out and met with him, had coffee, and he handed me, it was like a news article. He said, hey, this just came out. And it said that in that neighborhood where we were working, at that time it was called Plywood Village, is what they called it.
In that neighborhood there were 5,000 school-aged children. 5,000 kids, and that's from preschool up through about eighth grade. They weren't counting high school. 5,000 kids, but 3,000 of those were not in a school. That the government...
classrooms were full. were 65 kids per teacher and they were all full and 3,000 kids still were on the streets and not going to school. And so Franklin looked at me and said, I think we need to start a school. we're trying to preach the gospel to this community and honestly what their parents are concerned about is what's my kid gonna be like in five or ten or fifteen years when he can't read and write? He's got no future. So you want to preach Jesus to
but our kids, we needed education. And so we actually started a school. we have 650 kids in that school now and that community has just been transformed. And then the church really took off because you meet their need. Now they're gonna listen to what you have to say. And so we call them kingdom businesses because any business we start.
Chris (33:49)
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Ryan VandeLinde (34:21)
It is to fulfill a need of the community. So we're not just going to go start some business just to make tons and tons and tons of money. It's to meet a need in that community. We attach it to the church. We do it in the name of Jesus. We are a Christian business, but it is a business. It is run like a business. We sell the water at a very good affordable price, but we do sell the water. And the whole idea is to meet a need, to do it in the name of Jesus, to connect people,
to the church, use those kingdom businesses as a bridge to Jesus. Everybody needs water, everybody needs education, everybody needs medical help.
medical needs. So we use those to bridge people to Jesus and meet their needs. then secondarily, we hope on the business side of things that those businesses can actually generate income. Number one, our goal is always to help them become self-sufficient, where they're taking care of themselves financially, they pay their own employees, they pay their own light bill, their rent, whatever they need. All right, we want to be self-sufficient so that American dollars don't ever have to go back into them. And then part of self-sufficiency is we
that they actually make money and of that net profit some of that is going to go back into the mission and back into our other works there in the Dominican Republic within our organization.
Christopher Swing (35:40)
Yeah, and I mean, I don't know how you and Franklin did so well, but that really was the start of the kingdom businesses, right? It was the school. And then it's grown and continued to evolve. And I love the idea of sustainability. And I know that's been really important to you right from the very beginning. That was always a vision for you. And so.
Ryan VandeLinde (35:50)
Yep, the school.
Christopher Swing (36:04)
I think that's huge. I do think there's a lot of challenges that come along with that and I'm sure that you probably know that better than anybody. I think having a vision of at some point in time attaining that level is critical to all mission work.
Ryan VandeLinde (36:20)
Yeah, I I've just always felt becoming self-sufficient or self-sustaining and everything we do, that's our goal, is that with or without you and me, Chris, with or without our help, with or without American help, our churches, our kingdom businesses, they're going to succeed forever. Now, with our help right now, they have a better chance of getting up and going and succeeding, but if something were to happen and we had to all pull away,
Is our foundation, is our mission, are these churches, are these kingdom business, are they going to continue?
Forever and that is always our goal. So to help them become Self-sufficient from as soon as possible. That's that's our goal and sometimes that means we have to invest a lot of money on the front end and Unlike a business where you invest money and you expect to get that money back and make money This is investing money that you're not going to get back But they're gonna have it and then they're gonna make money in the future which will turn around and come back to the mission and then and help us start other Other other businesses
Christopher Swing (37:11)
Okay.
Ryan VandeLinde (37:21)
or other church plants, but it's extremely important that we're not just continually dumping American dollars into some money pit that's just not working. And so we will actually, if something happens, we will close down that kingdom business if it's not working after a while. If we've given it our best shot and it's not working, we'll close it down because it's not going to be self-sufficient in the future.
Christopher Swing (37:46)
I'm with you, know, I have no problem investing in infrastructure and things but I want to get at the heart of why you're this way. And I think I know, and I'm going to try to lead you there, but you can call me out if you think I'm wrong. These people are your family, right? I mean, your staff, I see how you guys interact, I know how much you care about these people.
Ryan VandeLinde (37:57)
Okay.
Christopher Swing (38:09)
I know that you're trying to create an environment where if something were to happen to EDCM or something were to happen to you or whatever, that their livelihood doesn't just stop, right? I mean, I do think that there's some, call it altruistic because we wanna make sure that there's not this continuous flow of capital, but there's also some continuity and there's some preservation of
their livelihoods and things that in the event that something does happen. And obviously nobody wants that to happen and nobody foresees that to happen. But I think there's just a natural relationship that comes with building a religious organization in another country. And I don't know, what's your thoughts?
Ryan VandeLinde (38:59)
Yeah, mean, absolutely they are family. And the reason they are is because once we did learn Spanish, it took our relationships of being kind of surface relationships to very deep.
relationships with them and we've been through thick and thin together, many of us. Over 17 years, most of this staff has been here 10 plus years with me or eight plus years with me. Some of them I knew when they were 12 and 13 years old and now they're 30 years old and running things.
I want them to succeed. mean, it's not about me being the CEO, executive director, and getting all the glory and fame for this mission. I want them to succeed. I also want them to be making a difference in their own country, in their own culture. If it's kingdom businesses, then run it and run them well to help people. And the churches, of course.
We want them to be making disciples forever. And so with or without me, with or without us, I want them to succeed. And this is what they do. Absolutely. They are family. I love them deeply. They're not just employees. They're family. And so we definitely want them to succeed.
Christopher Swing (40:09)
So you've been in leadership for some time now. What are some of the principles, whether scripturally or whatever, that really have guided your North Star? What are the things that you really focus on in leadership to try to help to continue to grow and evolve this organization that started significantly simpler and now has continued to become more and more?
and effective.
Ryan VandeLinde (40:37)
Yeah, think, so I'll say two things. The difference between a leader and a boss. And that's something that I've taught over and over and over again in the Dominican. And you know it, but a boss is just somebody that's out front, he's looking back or she's looking back, demanding, follow me, follow me, you have to do this, you have to do that, you have to do that. And that is...
That mentality is exactly culturally what the Dominicans grow up with. That's what they think leadership is. That's just natural. It's just in them. That's right, el jefe, right? El jefe. And it's always a man in this culture. That's changing some, but it's always been a man. He's gonna tell you what to do and you do it because he's in charge. And I've tried to teach them, there's a different way to do things and it's that leader, that servant leader that we get from Jesus, servant leadership where
Christopher Swing (41:08)
Right?
Ryan VandeLinde (41:28)
Yes, you're still in charge. Yes, I do have to kind of tell them what to do sometimes, but I'm instead of just telling them what to do, I actually grab their hand and we go together, right? Or I'm saying, hey, come, come with me. Let's, let's do this. Let's do this together. And so that's been one thing that just has guided me throughout all of this is I'm not here as an American, just telling you what to do to fix your culture. I'm here to work alongside of you, to help you, to guide you. Sometimes I'm one or two steps ahead of you. And honestly, sometimes
you're one or two steps ahead of me and I'll follow you sometimes. The other thing that I love is actually in his Biblicals in Ephesians chapter 4 the Apostle Paul actually talks about that that talks about how God gives different gifts to different people in the church and he that's where it's one of the lists where he says that
These gifts that Christ gave to the church that some to be apostles and prophets and evangelists and pastors and teachers. Okay, it's one of those lists. But the very next verse I love and it says that their responsibility, these pastors and evangelists, their responsibility is to equip God's people to do his work and build up the church, which is the body of Christ.
And I love that and so the two words that I have used for decades, for 15 years now is equip and empower. Now those have become pretty popular words but when I started using them honestly I didn't really know anybody else that was using them so I can't claim that I did that they're from me but they translate really well in Spanish too. Equipar y empoderar. So they really translate. And that's exactly what I feel my role is as a church leader, as this foundation leader.
Equip and empower to equip God's people to do his work. That's all I'm trying to do is equip them, give them the tools necessary, teach them how to do it. It's God's work. It's not just me doing God's work, it's all of us doing God's work. And so I learned very early on being in the DR, if we're ever gonna grow.
as a ministry, it cannot all be on my shoulders. And if I'm the smartest person in the room, we might have trouble, right? So when I gather people around, I want other people that are smarter than me, that know the culture better than me, that know church planting better than me. And together, maybe I'm the leader, maybe I'm the one pushing it, a little bit of guiding, but together we put it together. And so I'm there to help equip God's people to do His work. And I think...
The sooner I learned that, the better off we were. And that's when we really started to multiply because the first couple years I think I was trying to do it all my own and realize if I do that, we're going to have one church forever or one kingdom business. And I just equip people, equip, equip, equip, equip, and then empower them. And then that means let them do it. They're going to do it their own way in their own cultural way. And I can guide and direct that some, but don't micromanage them.
Those are two leadership things I really focus on in the D.R.
Christopher Swing (44:25)
So that's awesome because I say that a lot. If I'm the smartest guy in the room, we're in trouble. And that's so true. I think sometimes our staff laugh at us when we say those things. it's why we hire the people that we hire and the roles that we hire them in. And then getting out of their way and letting them do some of the work. And yeah, I love it.
Ryan VandeLinde (44:28)
Okay. Yeah, yeah.
Well,
each of us as leaders, we have our gifts and abilities. We also have our weaknesses. And the sooner you can learn what your gifts and abilities are and what your weaknesses are, the better off you're going to be. And so I will actually try to hire people around me that are good at my weaknesses.
that makes us stronger. If I'm humble enough to admit I'm weak in this, you're good at it, want you to do it. And that takes some humility because sometimes as the main leader you think you're supposed to know it all and do everything and it's impossible, it really is.
Christopher Swing (45:16)
it reminds me of when I joined Vantage. You I told the CEO at the time that I was coming in as her CFO, I hate payroll. And she's like, but you're the CFO. I know, but I hate payroll. So if that's part of my core function, this is not going to work out well. You know, I came from an organization where I was, you know, we had payroll for a
thousands of people and it just turned into a nightmare for me. And so I learned really early on, that's just something I just don't want to participate in. And it doesn't mean that I can't oversee it or whatever, but if that's really a core function, we're all in trouble because that's not, I'm not the detail guy that, you know, can look at that many people's checks and make sure that everybody gets paid well. And as everyone knows, when you don't get paid well, everybody knows really quickly and everybody gets excited.
Ryan VandeLinde (45:45)
Right.
What?
Yeah.
Well, I'll give you an example
of this is a little example, I really dislike social media posts and monthly newsletters.
Christopher Swing (46:09)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ryan VandeLinde (46:11)
So we've done a monthly newsletter since day one, right? I mean all our supporters in the United States, want to see pictures, they want to see what's going on, and now we can use social media. I understand the importance of it. I understand. think we should do it. I just don't want to be the one that does it. I don't want to take time away from what I'm doing, it's the real work, to sit there to put together a newsletter and some pictures and make it look pretty. And so I did it for a long time, and then finally now I have some other people in our team that they love doing that stuff.
And you have to.
Christopher Swing (46:41)
right? Because you need the support and the people that
want to provide the support, want to see this information. And so it's a perfect example of how someone can step up and be so integral to what you're doing and ensure that people are getting the information that they need, et cetera. So looking forward, what does the next 10 to 15 years look like for the
Ryan VandeLinde (46:47)
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Christopher Swing (47:04)
for the EDCM organization, where do you see us going and what are some of the steps maybe that you're taking towards getting towards that vision?
Ryan VandeLinde (47:10)
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. we have a board of directors that are Americans throughout the United States. their main role is to guide us to kind of look at them as the guardrails on a road, make sure as an executive director, I don't drive this thing off a cliff, right? So part of our vision is I take vision to them and they get to kind of help approve it.
I usually do most of the casting of the vision. And then they kind of say, well, let's go this way, this way. And as a Christian organization, we, we, we bathe that in prayer, you know? And so we were praying, God, where do you want us to go? What do you want us to do? So first of all, we want to continue growing within the Dominican Republic. So what that means is our primary goal as a mission is church planting. And we're in the Eastern part of the Dominican Republic. So we have two, two church plants we are working on right now. We've been in those communities for over
over
a year. have a Dominican pastor and his wife in those communities, but we don't have land. We don't have a building. We don't have a place to meet. They literally meet on basketball courts. And so the very next step, in 2025, is we're actually looking for funding to purchase land and to either rent a big tent, one of those big wedding tents, you know, so we can have church in or to build a small church building in because we already have people coming to those
churches. We just don't have the church buildings. So the short term is we need help. We need about $100,000 for each one of those projects to really get them going where we can buy a piece of land or rent a piece of land and get a little building on it. So that's the short term is to plant those two churches. We also would like to plant some more Haitian or Creole speaking churches.
But our goal for that is to actually plant those churches within our current church buildings. So yeah, so we're gonna have a Spanish service, you know, let's say the Spanish services Sunday morning.
Christopher Swing (49:04)
interesting.
Ryan VandeLinde (49:11)
then in Sunday night the Haitians are going to come in and have a creole service. So we're going to be looking for a director of Haitian church planting in the next couple years that can oversee our Haitian church plants because that's a whole other cultural, everything we talked about, cultural obstacles and all that, you do it again within the country with another, right? So we need a Haitian that we can trust that can guide all of those, but we don't have to go buy land and buildings. We're just going to use our current buildings and
Christopher Swing (49:30)
Great.
Ryan VandeLinde (49:40)
just
offer those at different times. then Kingdom businesses, just still, right now, we're trying to get our water plant and our clinic really up and running where they should be. So we don't have any plans right now to do any more Kingdom businesses currently. Now I'll give you a bigger goal.
And this is from my heart, is for whoever's listening to this podcast. So don't get me in trouble because this has not been approved by a board of directors. a bigger, Kelsey knows my heart, but a bigger vision is we have a lot of connections in different countries. And a lot of
Christopher Swing (50:07)
worry, Kelsey won't watch it.
You
Costa
Rica.
Ryan VandeLinde (50:20)
Costa Rica being one top of the list, Puerto Rico is at top of the list. And these are people that I either have discipled, mentored, or befriended over the years, or have known for a long time, that are running smaller missions, or running a church, or trying to do church planting. They're all on their own, they're independent, they don't have any funding, they don't have any guidance, they don't have any help, they're just trying to do something good. And so I am in conversation.
with some of these people, mainly in Costa Rica and Puerto Rico, about possibly them all coming under our umbrella of EEDCM. And then we could help bring some structure to their ministries. We could help bring some funding to their ministries, bring some accountability. And then EEDCM would grow and do church planting in Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, and Costa Rica pretty easily. And so that's actually a bigger vision that maybe is more of a three-
year vision right now that I'm actually praying about because we have great connections there with wonderful, wonderful people that are doing great ministry and would love to be a part of that Kingdom work any way I can to help them just even have more success.
Christopher Swing (51:36)
So, you know, these are all, I think you've cast a really clear, you know, vision of where you hope to go. one of the things I want to clarify from my perspective is that the Eastern Dominican Christian Mission is in any way compensating us to do this. We do it because it's in our heart. Kelsey and I made at least six or seven trips to DR with the EDCM and or
going to stay with people that work for the EDCM just to love on them and enjoy them. so my hope is that if people hear this and are motivated by it, that it's a great way for people to understand how they can have impact on people in another part of the world. Tell us kind of how they can engage and what you could use from them.
Ryan VandeLinde (52:28)
Yeah, right. So first and foremost, if you're a believer in Jesus Christ, we ask for your prayers. We truly believe in the power of prayer. God can move mountains. We really believe. I'm kind of one of my life verses is Ephesians three verse 20, you know, that says to him who is able to do immeasurably more than we could ask or imagine according to his power that is at work within us to him.
be the glory and I love that passage because I truly believe he, through God, he can do immeasurably more than I can ask or imagine. I can be the vision, I can cast vision, I can think all day long. God is the one that does immeasurably more than I could ever even think of. But it is according to his power at work within us. So we do have a role in that. His power is working through us. I have a part in that. He's gonna do immeasurably more through us.
And I want to always continue to give Him the glory. And so the first thing I would say is just We always need prayer. We always just God where do you want us to go?
help them be successful. do immeasurably more. So if we're always looking to build our prayer warriors out there, so if you could lift up EDCM on a daily basis, that would be absolutely incredible. And of course, as a nonprofit, you know this, whoever's listening, you all know this, how many nonprofits ask you for money, right? All of us. And honestly, in the nonprofit world, I think most of us that run nonprofits, we wish we never had to ask for a penny.
Christopher Swing (53:54)
Yeah.
Ryan VandeLinde (54:02)
We could just go and do what we do and never have to ask for a penny, but unfortunately things cost and so of course we always need financial support. We're very stable mission, but I just cast a vision of growing two new churches plus the Haitian churches plus maybe in other countries. You can just start adding that up plus our medical clinic. We don't have any medical equipment donated yet, so we're looking for some financial partners. This can be one-time gift.
towards a project or just towards a general fund or they can be ongoing monthly support that go into our general funds that we can use as we see fit. we're always looking for that. You can find that on our website, easterndominican.org. So just easterndominican.org and right at the top there's a give.
page and you just click on give and it'll guide you through how to give. It's pretty easy. So, easterndominican.org. through prayer and then of course through some financial support we would be honored to partner with you and have you as a partner with us.
Christopher Swing (55:09)
So to wrap this up a little bit here, the one thing that I'll tell you about my experience with Ryan is he's the first one that kind of introduced me to the book, When Helping Hurts. And that's driven the mission. And I think it's created a very well-intentioned, directed organization.
one of the unique things that I'll give you about Eastern American Christian Mission, just from my perspective, and I'm not on the board or anything, if you want to support the mission, you don't have to take Ryan and I's word for the amazing things that we're doing in the country. You can come.
they have an organization that, the leaders live in the country. And so they're almost always open to having mission teams come down. And so if you need that physical connection with seeing something done,
to be willing to support the organization, then reach out and get connected. Because I can tell you, I've went many times. And if you're willing to just rely upon my commitment that I'm not part of the organization, but I believe so heavily in it, the work that they're doing is amazing. I stood on the basketball court and prayed with one of the new ministers that's gonna be starting a church there.
It's kind of a unique basketball court if I remember, isn't it two feet above the ground or three feet above the ground or something? And so I'm not sure exactly what the logic was that was going into that whole strategy when they were building it, but hey, it works. It's fine, you know, whatever. So.
Ryan VandeLinde (56:32)
Yes it is.
You
That's a government, that's just a public basketball court and they just pour the concrete, it goes up, they build a box and they fill it up with concrete. Every basketball court in the country is built like that, it's two feet off the ground. You know, when you miss your layup, you fall off the backside of it, but that's okay.
Christopher Swing (56:59)
Yeah, right.
mean, that's what I was thinking when we were standing on it. hey, Ryan, I'm so thankful that you're willing to take some time to talk to us and to share your heart with us and to give us an opportunity to see EDCM through your mind and to engage in how leadership has affected you.
You know, I go back to one of the first trips that we went on. I'm pretty sure I wore you out multiple times just with the sheer questions about where you're going. That's for those of you who don't know me that well, you know, I'm all about, you know, casting a vision and then constantly knowing, am I getting closer to where I'm going or am I getting further away? And, and the more that we grow and expand our teams.
You know, we have to make sure that they know where we're going because we need them to think about that every time they make a decision. Am I getting closer to our goals? Am I getting further away? And that helps us as an organization to at least have some true North Star where, you know, you can go to somebody and say, OK, you know, we made a mistake. We made this decision, you know.
How did you visualize us getting closer and being able to understand what's going on in their mind and saying, OK, I can see where that came from. Maybe I need to clarify more about what my.
specific vision is. so I always ask him lots of hard questions. So he can handle those too. So if you need any insight in extreme detail, I'm sure he's prepared to answer any of your questions. But I'm sure thankful to have you. This has been a great time for me. It's a privilege to experience this. I'd.
Ryan VandeLinde (58:27)
Yeah.
Christopher Swing (58:39)
Yeah, it was a pleasure. Really though, Ryan has been a great, he has affected my leadership. I can promise you throughout my leadership journey and anybody that has the opportunity, I would encourage you to get to know Ryan and the organization. I've seen firsthand what he's done in the Dominican Republic. It's an amazing thing. So thanks for everything you're doing, man.
Ryan VandeLinde (59:01)
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Christopher Swing (59:04)
Yeah, no worries. So anyways, thanks for tuning in to the Faithful. This is one of three sessions. We released all three of them at the same time because we couldn't figure out which one to release. So we've got two mission organizations and then the founder of the organization, Vantage, of which I joined a little over 12 years ago, which just seems like a long time.
Thanks for joining us, and I look forward to catching up with you on the next episode. Take care.
