Faithful
Welcome to Faithful, the podcast where inspirational leadership meets strategic insight in business. Join us each week as we explore the stories, strategies, and wisdom of industry leaders and visionaries who embody resilience, integrity, and faith in their pursuits.
In each episode, we explore transformative leadership principles, actionable strategies, and the power of faith in navigating business challenges. Whether you’re an aspiring entrepreneur, an established leader, or simply looking for motivation to elevate your journey, "Faithful" is your go-to resource for inspiration and growth.
Tune in to discover how to lead purposefully, cultivate a thriving team culture, and harness your unique vision to make a lasting impact. Let’s embark on a growth, empowerment, and faithful leadership journey together.
Faithful
Faith and Leadership: A Journey with Ann
Summary
In this conversation, Christopher Swing and Ann discuss the intersection of leadership and faith, exploring the founding vision of Vantage, the importance of integrity in business, and the challenges faced in the journey of entrepreneurship. They reflect on the growth and eventual sale of Vantage, the dynamics of private equity, and the significance of community engagement and board leadership. Throughout the discussion, Ann emphasizes the role of faith in her leadership style and the importance of treating employees like family, while also addressing the challenges of maintaining integrity in a competitive business environment.
Takeaways
- Faith has been a cornerstone of my leadership journey.
- Building a culture of integrity is essential for long-term success.
- Resilience is tested many times in business ownership.
- The growth of Vantage exceeded my expectations.
- Community engagement is a vital part of business.
- Transitioning leadership roles can be challenging but rewarding.
- Nonprofits play a crucial role in giving back to the community.
- Effective board dynamics require collaboration and trust.
- Proud moments come from helping others achieve their potential.
- Maintaining a family-like culture in business fosters loyalty and commitment.
Chapters
00:00 Faith and Leadership Foundations
01:43 The Vision Behind Vantage
05:32 Building a Culture of Integrity
08:25 Resilience in Business Challenges
10:43 The Journey of Vantage's Growth
13:44 Navigating the Private Equity Experience
16:35 Transitioning Leadership Roles
20:44 Board Work and Charitable Contributions
22:36 Giving Back to the Community
23:55 Transitioning to Board Leadership
27:18 The Role of a Board Member
29:32 Evolving Challenges in Board Governance
30:48 Proud Moments in Leadership
32:47 Faith as a Cornerstone of Leadership
34:15 The Family vs. Professional Culture Debate
40:21 Key Takeaways and Final Thoughts
keywords
#leadership, #faith, #business growth, #integrity, #resilience, #private equity, #community engagement, #board dynamics, #family culture, #Vantage, #Christopher Swing, #Ann Deters, #Faithful
Faithful - https://faithful.buzzsprout.com/
Please feel free to check out the organizations that support us:
Vantage Surgical Solutions - https://vantage.healthcare/
Vantage Surgical Solutions Careers - https://vantage.healthcare/careers/
Chris Contact Info - https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherswing/
And the ones we support:
Missions:
Developing Kids Ghana - https://developingkidsghana.com/
Eastern Dominican Christian Mission - https://easterndominican.org/
Broadway Christian Church - https://broadwaycc.churchcenter.com/home/
57/70 Task Force: https://5770taskforce.org/
Christopher Swing (00:00)
Welcome to Faithful, the podcast where we explore the intersection of leadership, faith, and impact. I'm your host, Christopher Swing, president and CEO of Vantage Surgical Solutions. Through thoughtful conversations with business leaders, missionaries, and change makers, we uncover the principles that guide their work and connect them to timeless wisdom. In season one, we're diving into the foundational organizations and experiences that shape my own leadership journey. Whether you're a leader in business,
faith or your community, this conversation is packed with inspiration and practical wisdom. Thank you for joining me on this journey of discovering how faith and leadership intersect in meaningful ways. Let's dive into the episode.
Christopher Swing (00:43)
today we have a really awesome opportunity to interact with someone who's very integral in my leadership journey, as well as just very important to me as an individual and someone who I've been partnered with in the past. Anne was the board chair and is the board chair. She was the CEO and founder of Vantage when I joined in 2012.
Her leadership through the trials and tribulations was unmatched by any leader that I've been around in the history of all the different companies that I've worked for and industries I've worked in. I'm really excited to have her not only to hear about her perspective on leadership, also on
the growth of a business, the transaction, what life is like after the transaction and did that get her closer to her personal goals or further away or did we get different goals? And so with that, and welcome to Faithful.
Ann (01:43)
Thank you, Chris. I think it's great what you're doing in terms of teaching leadership, how to incorporate faith into their approach. So I know when I finally embraced it, was life-changing for me. So thanks for what you're doing.
Christopher Swing (01:59)
So let's start at the beginning. You found Advantage in 1990 and it officially opened for business I think in 1991. What inspired you to start this company and what were your vision in those days? I know what your vision is today, but what was it way back then?
Ann (02:19)
So, know, as you know, I grew up in small town USA, but then I had the opportunity to move to the big city, went to school in Dallas, and then also my first job was in St. Louis. So, was able to experience both the small town and the large town. And having come back to the area, wanted to try to bring high technology and medical solutions back to rural America. That was really the initial vision for the company.
Christopher Swing (02:46)
That's awesome because to be honest, it's not that much different than it is today. So today we're vantage standing for excellence leading advanced healthcare solutions. And that doesn't sound that much different. Yes, we use a few different words, but I think it's in essence a continuation of what you had right from the very beginning.
So in those early years, like when you first started Vantage, how did you ensure that we embodied all the things that you represent or what represent you in regards to like integrity and commitment and creativity and communication and excellence? Were there specific moments or initiatives that helped establish these as the foundation of the company's culture and
You know, when did that happen?
Ann (03:31)
So I think from the get-go, it's always you've got to walk the talk. And so what you're preaching to your employees, your customers, you've got to carry through and do it yourself. So I think that was one of the first things in terms of integrity.
And I think the other thing is just never give up. In our first year of business, Medicare decides to cut the rates of part of our services, which became part of our services, to 50%. And so our revenue went down 50%. And we then got our heads together and looked at different ways to continue to improve. no matter what life throws at you, you figure out,
this is what it is and how do we walk around this barrier so to speak or crawl over the barrier however you want to look at it.
And I think that another thing that helped out a great deal was my father. He was a great role model for me. you bet on the jockey, but not the horse. And then let them run with things. So as we grew as a business, giving more over to people that were better doing things than what I was or other people in our organization. And then also listening to the
customer, know, what are their needs? We know we're meeting their needs in one area. What other needs do they have? And so that really was the success advantage. So we started off with one piece of equipment for one service. And today we provide a multitude of pieces of equipment, all the medical supplies that are used in a procedure, even the lens that goes into the eye. And then
Chris (05:08)
Faithful is proudly sponsored by Vantage Surgical Solutions, where excellence meets innovation in advanced healthcare solutions. With a foundation built on integrity, creativity, and commitment, Vantage empowers leaders to shape the future, just as we explore leadership through faith on the podcast. Vantage Surgical Solutions, standing for excellence, leading advanced healthcare solutions.
Ann (05:32)
Probably not the best decision that we made, we then incorporated the micro instruments, which has been a pain in everybody's side. But we still provide it as an add-on service. So we constantly were looking to expand how we can meet the customer's needs.
Christopher Swing (05:48)
And for all of those of you who don't get the opportunity to sit in our board meetings, that's been a challenge that Anne has had for me for a while and I still don't have a very good answer, so we're still providing micro instruments. starting a business, go ahead.
Ann (06:02)
But one other
thing I just want to add to, Chris, is that early on, this is where we had a crossroads on integrity. But we had a major competitor that was practicing unethical ways to attract and keep customers.
Christopher Swing (06:06)
Yeah.
Ann (06:21)
And so we were faced with this and we had to make it absolutely clear to our potential customers that this was not a practice that we were going to embrace.
And we lost customers, our potential customers, and revenue as a result of it. So we grew probably, I don't know, our competitor was growing. You if they were doing double, we were doing half of that. And so we were okay with it. You know, our thought was we're going to grow this business in an ethical manner, no matter what our customers ask us to do, and we're going to follow the rules. And that hurt us as far as a growth.
but it helped us in terms of letting everyone know this is who we are.
Christopher Swing (07:05)
Yeah, and I mean, to be honest, we still struggle with that today. I I still have the same scenarios where physicians are requesting reimbursements and ways to make money off of our services. And it's like, well, the government created very clear guidelines that that's not how this works. so.
We've never deviated from that and we're proud of that. I mean, I'm proud of that. I also think that you've got to be willing to walk the walk when you're dealing with situations like that because if you say that integrity is important and then the first chance you get, you make a left turn, then it's pretty clear to everyone that integrity is not really that important. And so
Ann (07:44)
Yeah,
And that gets tested, you know, not just with competitors, but employees, know, customers, know, whatever. But yeah, you just got to stay the course. it was another thing my father used to say is that the only thing you can take to the grave with you is your integrity. And that is so true.
Christopher Swing (07:51)
sure.
Yeah, that's a great point. So starting a company is not a small feat, right? And you've experienced this a multitude of times. It requires vision and faith and resilience. this is dirty pool because obviously I've got a lot of experience with and, and so I know the answer to the question, which is why I wrote it, but you know,
Give us a situation in which your faith was really tested or maybe it's just your resolve was really tested. I mean, there's just a lot of challenging things that happen in business. Anyways, just give us a situation that comes to mind and maybe we can dig into that.
Ann (08:43)
Yeah, you know, first of all, yeah, your faith, your resilience is tested many, many times when you own your own business and for that matter, you know, a career too. But, you I would pray to God to just give me the resilience and the fortitude to stay strong and to stay in the fight. I prayed that pretty regularly.
you know, it was dealing with a disgruntled customer, whether it was dealing with a doctor who was challenging us to do things that we didn't want, didn't.
wasn't going to do or even, you know, I worked with my husband and that was, there was difficult times there too, but you you just, you put your head down, you work through whatever life throws at you was, know, what I ended up just embracing. But always went back to what are my priorities? It's faith, it's family and then business.
And though my children might argue that point a bit, it was really what I did in terms of keeping everything in check. But probably the most difficult one was, you know, I started in a number of businesses, not just Vantage, but as you know, the surgery center in Rolla, Missouri, and the billing company. And, you know, life was good. I was very successful as an entrepreneur.
And then in my mid-40s, I partnered and we started a medical day spa. And then the 2008 market hit and we had to shut it down. So that was probably from a business and personal...
point in my life that was probably the lowest point. And I remember just getting to the end of my rope and I was like, you know, how much more can I deal with here? And I just gave it over to God and said, you know, I give up. And things turned around. It was amazing. It was just amazing. I think it was his way of saying, we're going to do it my way from now on.
Christopher Swing (10:36)
Right.
Ann (10:36)
It was good.
Christopher Swing (10:38)
Yeah.
Ann (10:39)
Hard but good.
Christopher Swing (10:41)
Yeah, sometimes those are hard lessons to learn, but I mean, to your point though, like the way that you guys came out of that situation was phenomenal and it resolved almost instantly.
Ann (10:43)
So.
you
Yeah, I mean, we thought we thought it was going to take us down financially. I mean, all of this that I'd built up and had been successful with and that we had built as far as vantage and we thought it was all going to be lost. And so when you get to that low and then able to climb out of it, it was just so powerful, so powerful. But, you know, you you.
I know I said I gave up, but I really didn't give up the fight. I gave it over to God, and he did some wonderful things for us. And I'm forever grateful.
Christopher Swing (11:26)
So let's talk about Vantage a little bit. And for those people who don't know the history of Vantage beyond obviously that it was started in 1990, know, and grew the business significantly. And then in 2021, we sold it to private equity. And so I want to ask her a few questions just regarding Vantage. And that was like, you know, you've always had
And I don't mean this in a negative way, but you've always had crazy high expectations for yourself, for your team, for your organizations. I mean, it's, and I'm not, don't feel like I'm misleading people. Do you agree? Like your expectations in general are probably above average. Let's just say.
Ann (12:14)
yeah, always trying to look for the biggest opportunity in any organization or person. And yeah, I don't know. think that's just how, again, I go back to that's how I was raised.
Christopher Swing (12:25)
Hmm, it's a strength, for
sure.
Ann (12:28)
Yeah, but I know some of the boards that I sit on now, think it, I didn't ever look at it that way. But they sometimes, you know, we're just looking to do this and, you know, don't, don't look out 10 years. We just want to look out three. And, but, you know, that's just, that's my DNA. or fortunately or unfortunately.
Christopher Swing (12:46)
Yeah, so looking at through through that lens, right? That's my question is, is so do you do you feel like vantage met or exceeded your expectations based upon where we were at the time when we transacted? Or do you feel like we fell short?
Ann (13:01)
Yeah.
When we finally transacted with PE? Yeah, far exceeded. I mean, if you go back again, if you go back to the services that we, the business that we were back in the 90s versus the business that we were.
Christopher Swing (13:05)
Yeah.
Ann (13:18)
In 2020, it's just amazing. And then the geographic area, never, honestly, I never envisioned that we would be able to grow it that much. I thought we could grow it more in a region and expand the services that way. yeah, so, you know, services as well as geographic expansion far exceeded my expectations and the value that we got as a result of that transaction. So it was a win-win-win.
Christopher Swing (13:22)
Yeah.
So on the private equity transaction, how was that experience for you? What did it mean for the company and its mission? maybe just a quick, would you do it again?
Ann (13:57)
Yeah, would I do it again? I guess I on those kind of things, I don't look back, but I probably would have done it differently. Would have put maybe a little bit more. You know, we in my mind, we turned it over.
Christopher Swing (14:03)
Yeah.
Ann (14:13)
even though you were still involved. The whole goal that you and our shareholders decided that this is the right thing to do is to allow us to get into other lines of surgical services. in that regard, we met the overall goal. But...
Christopher Swing (14:16)
Yeah.
Sure.
Ann (14:32)
in turning over the reins to the P.E. handpicked CEO, I think we could all agree, including the P.E. company, he was not the right fit for the company. And so we went...
It took us over a year to all come to that conclusion. so as the listeners don't know this, but as a result of that experience, we then brought you back in as a CEO, which is what I wanted from the get go. And I wish that in hindsight, I wish I would have pushed that harder.
We increased our overhead costs significantly and in many ways it was unnecessary. I understand the PE concept of bringing in more resources and investing, that's all well and great. But you also, think, the lack of desire to learn who we were.
and how we did it was disappointing. They kind of came in and their CEO just kind of ran his own course and executed. And the thing that, and I'm not alone in this because I've got a number of friends that have sold the PEs, but they come in with a...
preconceived notion that they know more than what the company does. if I could change anything, I would change that. I mean, there's some nuances to our business that they needed to understand. But with you now in the CEO role, which I said is something that I want in the very beginning, things are turning around. But.
you know, it, it will take us a bit longer. you know, we've had a little blip, but I'm totally confident now with you running it and Jason and the other key people that we have, I'm totally confident that, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna do some great things. and so in that regard, we're back on track, but, I sure wish we could have gotten that one year back. I think we would be so much further.
Christopher Swing (16:27)
The one thing
that I'll add to that though is I grew a lot in that two year period of time. And I think part of it was
of the struggle and I think part of it was out of the realization that I wanted to be a different leader as I kind of continued forward and so I don't you know I don't know what the you know it's it's it's one of those things where hindsight's 20-20 but I don't know in this case if it is because I don't know what it would have looked like I think we would have continued down the path that we were in I think the
private equity firm would have been frustrated with the time to get to the growth curve that they wanted. I agree we wouldn't have spent as much on the overhead stuff. But it's, I don't have any ill will.
Ann (17:13)
But a lot of what they did is
what you and I talked about. And that is we got to get a sales leader in there. We got to mess in our sales team, as well as look at acquisitions to get into other areas. So I think we're doing what we thought was best for the company. so we just, we...
Christopher Swing (17:17)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yep.
for
Yeah.
Ann (17:32)
I think in the end you're going to do fantastic. it's not going to be easy.
Christopher Swing (17:39)
Yeah. I
don't know if there's too much that is. We'll be in an overnight success, 30 years in the making, just like you always said.
Ann (17:45)
Yeah, yeah.
Christopher Swing (17:47)
All of a sudden one day people are like, man Vantage is awesome. They're this great company. And it's like, yeah, we just woke up one day and decided we were going to be that. And so that's where we're at.
Ann (17:58)
But we're still a small business. I I remember early days, somebody said to me, Ann, you're not anything until you make a million dollars, and we made the million dollars. And I was like, OK, you're not anything until you make $5 million, or we made the five. So there's always that next. But I think we've got to be very, very proud of what we've built and who we are today.
Christopher Swing (18:00)
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, exactly.
Chris (18:22)
Faithful is brought to you by Vantage Surgical Solutions, where we believe in progress through passion. If you're inspired by innovation and excellence in healthcare, we invite you to join our team. At Vantage, we're not just shaping the future of healthcare. We're empowering individuals to make a difference. Visit our careers page to explore opportunities and see if your journey aligns with ours. Vantage Surgical Solutions, where passion meets purpose.
Christopher Swing (18:47)
Yeah, for sure. talking about that transition, right? So like, what did that mean for you? Like you transitioned, part of the transaction was your exit as the primary leader of the organization. Even though I was the president and COO, I mean, you still were there heavily supporting me through the leadership of the company.
So what happened once this transaction went through? Like, what do you do that keeps you busy where I don't see you every day like I used to?
Ann (19:18)
So I really went through two major transitions and age one was when you came on board because you were hired to, know, a CFO first, but ultimately, you know, you were my successor. to let go of the day-to-day operations was probably the most difficult transition in my life, given that control is in my DNA. But it was one of the best things
Christopher Swing (19:24)
Yeah.
Ann (19:42)
that happened to me. I think it allowed me more time to strategize and look to the future and allow you to take care of the day-to-day headaches. And I found that I was happier because the day-to-day headaches, as you know, is all well and good, but it takes a lot out of you.
Christopher Swing (20:01)
Yeah, it does.
Ann (20:03)
You know, it transitioned from, and then you were running it and I was involved, but more so as a major issue that we would work through. You would take care of the smaller day-to-day, you and Jason and the team. And just to see you guys growing together, you guys did a great job.
And, but I think that I got to a point where, okay, I'm not going anywhere. I can't do nothing. And so what do I enjoy most about business? you know, even though I like the entrepreneurship and starting businesses at my age, I did not want to start another business.
But I did want to be involved with growing existing businesses. And that's when kind of an aha moment was like, OK, well, what about board work? And I've been doing that. My dad put me on the first board when I was 16 years old at a construction company, one of the businesses my family owned, and really enjoyed that work. So I've been on board since I was that old.
I didn't add a lot of value obviously, but by the time I was 30, boardroom was a very comfortable environment for me. And so I just thought, you know, that's one way that I can continue to be involved, continue to keep my...
myself active and also stay on top of business issues. And so I pursued several boards and now I'm on three other boards of an advantage and offering my experience. I've got a strong background in financial analysis, but more so growing businesses and different ways that companies can look at that.
love the board work because it's more not getting into the details as they say, know, no zen but fingers out. And, you know, I'm...
guiding but not leading, so to speak, the day to day. And then just sharing my network of both my expertise but also people that I know that I've been in the various businesses. it's probably the most rewarding work that I do today because not only can I do that and stay active, but it's a way for me to pay it forward, helping other businesses grow and be successful.
Christopher Swing (22:16)
So I'm going to take a left turn here. I'm so sorry about that in advance. But you also do a lot of charitable work still. how does that, is that in that same avenue, is just you've been so blessed that you want to have the opportunity to give other people that same or?
Ann (22:23)
Yes.
Christopher Swing (22:36)
Or is it also, I mean, the other benefit is you've been very successful running lots of different organizations with lots of personalities and leaders. And I mean, there's just a lot of value that we can add to the local nonprofits by providing services. And I know you've done a lot of that lately.
Ann (22:54)
Yeah, think again, I was asked to do that early in my career and I view it as a way to give back to the community. But then the most recent one that I'm involved with is human trafficking. And that is just near and dear to my heart, just with what these children are going through.
So, you know, part of it is passion, part of it is giving back. But I just enjoy moving the ball forward, so to speak, trying to address the evils that exist in our world, as well as trying to grow businesses. And the other thing too that I've been involved with, I view this as nonprofit, is mentoring other entrepreneurs. And so I'm involved with the Chamber Program where
business owners who want to grow or somebody that's wanting to start a business, we help them just be a guide for them in a sounding board. And I've been working with three different entrepreneurs, just helping them grow as individuals as well as grow their business.
Christopher Swing (23:54)
That's cool. So.
Transitioning to the role of board chair, you step back from the day-to-day operations and, you know,
It's different, right? And I think you were hitting on it that it's a different position to be the guide, not necessarily the leader that's doing all this. is it similar to being a consultant? like, how do you look at that role as, say, a board chair or even just a director on a board?
comparative to the CEO because they're definitely dramatically different roles.
Ann (24:31)
It's
interesting. I was just in a board call yesterday and the CEO said, hey, don't bring your board hat. Don't wear your board hat. Wear your consulting hat. And my comment back to him is, I don't think you me to be wearing a consulting hat because a consultant is a little bit more.
pushy, I'll say. We always try to sell it, but to me, a consultant is like, okay, here's the game plan, here's what you need to do, lay it all out and do more leading. But where I find as a board, sometimes we have to plant a seed and we water, water, water. mean, sometimes it takes a while to move a board ship in the direction that maybe needs to go.
Christopher Swing (24:52)
Yeah.
Ann (25:18)
And so I find that I still do the same things, offer my advice, but it's maybe...
sent out more as a softball as opposed to as opposed to a hardball I'll say. And then I just continue to ask challenging questions to try to promote what I think should be the way to go and I will do that until I'm told no we're not doing that.
Christopher Swing (25:42)
Yeah.
Ann (25:42)
And I've yet to be told that. They're always like, OK, look, we do need to think about that. But yeah, I am big on looking at the overall, what's best in the shareholder interest for this company.
Christopher Swing (25:57)
Do you think that a little bit of the difference is as directors, at least on my really effective boards, like we come without an agenda.
And there's the consultants always want you to be excited about whatever it is that they're proposing because they're hoping that you guys grab a hold of it. And then they've got three or four more gigs that they'll get out of the organization at some point in the future. Whereas really, I feel like as board members, you know, we're there to step back and say, are we getting closer to our goals and objectives? Are goals and objectives still relevant? Do we have the right players on the team?
Ann (26:21)
Bye.
Christopher Swing (26:34)
And not from, hey, we're trying to tell the CEO he needs to hire these different people. But some of the instances that I see are, we have a CEO who is trying to do more than their share of the work and therefore the knowledge transfer isn't happening. And so that's great. mean, the CEO is phenomenal and he's twice as effective as, maybe four times as effective as the next closest person, but.
You really need that continuation, that transition of knowledge. And you also need really high quality, motivated people that'll step up and add their flair and their perspective and not so much just a one person perspective.
Ann (27:18)
Yeah, because I mean, as you know, sitting on boards now, it's interesting as a CEO. Sitting on a board as a CEO, I think is so powerful because you know what it's like to have your head down, focusing on just getting through the day sometimes, sometimes getting through the week or the month. But as a board, you don't have that stress.
you can look broader. I think that, and we also, think you and I probably relate better to the CEO because we've been in their position. And the last thing I want to do is second guess the CEO. I just want to challenge him. I don't want to second guess him. And I've been in boardrooms where they are second guessing and that's just not, it's a defensive mode as opposed to a collaborative mode.
And so I always try to approach it in a way that, if I was receiving this message, how would I want to hear it? And so I think it's so powerful to, for you and I both have been on both sides and the vantage board before P.E. firm took it over, it was a family board and not nearly to the extent of what you're dealing with now as a P.E. board.
But in the same way it allowed us the opportunity to, we always had the discipline that we're going to have a board meeting because it allowed us to look broader as opposed to you know getting into the weeds and looking at the day-to-day. We need to look out three to five years and where are we heading the ship so to speak.
Christopher Swing (28:35)
Yeah.
Well, I think those are the steps, right, that a lot of companies skip because they're like, well, we are the shareholders. But I think what you just said was really important, and that is that, yes, we are the shareholders, but it's not the operational decision process that you're going through every day. This is like aggregate the data. Statistically, are you moving in the direction that you want to go?
Ann (28:54)
Yeah.
Christopher Swing (29:13)
or not. And I think there's a lot of value to that and a lot of people skip it over, unfortunately.
Ann (29:14)
Yeah.
Yeah, and then also what I find fascinating is it boards the issues that we are dealing with today versus the issues we dealt with 20 years ago. I mean, this cybersecurity, which is challenging.
somewhat scary. But then the AEI, that is exciting, both in technology. And we never would approach those topics before, and yet we need to start thinking about how that's going to impact us long term. And then ESG and DEI, just all the new things that boards have to address that I don't think you and I would have ever anticipated.
Christopher Swing (29:57)
Yeah, and for all of you ESG investors out there, we put at least four hybrid vehicles into service this year, advantage. So, you know, congratulations to us. We're slowly but surely conforming to strategy around sustainability, which is, it's, you know, it's dumb that I fought it for this long, but you know, and I don't say that, like there were other vehicles, but like it was the first time that we went into the process going.
we should probably have some sort of a strategy around how do we reduce the amount of fuel that we're consuming? How do we look at the cost all-encompassing, inclusive of the fuel side of things and the depreciation, et cetera? So tell me, before we wrap up this private equity side of it, because I'm jumping all over the place,
Ann (30:42)
Yeah.
Christopher Swing (30:48)
What's the one thing that you're most proud of? Like as you look back through your vantage years and I mean the I mean, I remember you telling stories about the very first laser you bought and the start of that process. You know, those things don't believe it or not. We actually listen, you know, we do. We did hear you when you would tell that story about breaking the the warranty seal on the laser, the very
First acquisition immediately after buying this $50,000 laser, you guys are avoiding the warranty, but what are you most proud of through that history?
Ann (31:25)
You know, I think as a young entrepreneur, your goal is to be most proud of building your assets. But I found over time, my proudest moments and achievements were growing people. And you look at how much Jason, you know.
Christopher Swing (31:42)
Yeah.
Ann (31:43)
started off as a technician for us. Dennis, started off as a and became our best salesman. But just seeing how they grew in the organization, Janice and Brenda, those are my proudest moments.
Christopher Swing (31:46)
Yeah. man.
Yeah.
Ann (31:58)
And then I think also just helping others achieve their greatest potential. That has over time really been where my focus is. If we see somebody that...
Christopher Swing (32:03)
Yeah.
Ann (32:10)
and you and I have talked about this, not going to name names, but this person's got it. And you can see it in the way in which they interact with us, in the way in which they think about things, the way in which they solve problems. I we're really looking for people who can solve problems for us. That's what business is all about.
and moving us from point A to point B. And so, to be able to hire those people, to be able identify the potential past what they might think they could do, and then put them in roles where they can prove it to themselves, that's rewarding.
Christopher Swing (32:47)
So, you know, the faith has obviously been a cornerstone of your leadership journey. I know it's not always the very first thing that we think about when we think about leadership, but I've always associated, one of the benefits that we have being in central Illinois is that there are way more people of faith here than not.
And so I think we've had the benefit of that. And I feel like our culture in our organization is that. one of the things that has become like,
the fad today is calling out organizations who call themselves families. Now I'm just gonna be honest, like we've always believed ourselves to be families, but I think the problem is they just have a warped sense of what a family is. Because in the Midwest at least, know, family doesn't mean like we...
have no accountability for our actions. Family doesn't mean that we show up and do as little as possible and disappear because we're part of the family. mean, what's your take on that? I mean, you've probably seen it too, because it's everywhere now where it's like.
I think the one that sticks out the most to me is the Netflix statement about, know, we're a professional basketball team or a professional sports team. We're not a family. And I'm like, okay, like call yourself whatever you want to, but don't hate on me because I say that we're a family still. So what's your thoughts?
Ann (34:15)
Yeah,
yeah, I remember being challenged by that probably what five, seven years ago because we've always always viewed it as family. I mean, we're family business. starts with, you know, all the shareholders are family members and and and being in small business since, you know, my father had several small businesses and we was always viewed as family. To me, that was just a given.
Christopher Swing (34:22)
Yeah.
Ann (34:40)
But I think it's also the top strength of small businesses is that we do view
employees as family. You know, I think the other thing that I was raising the philosophy that you treat others like you want to be treated to me that's, you know, embrace and family teaches you that probably more so than anything. Family teaches you how to treat one another. They teach you how to negotiate. You know, it's amazing. And so to bring over the family aspect into the business environment, I think is powerful.
Christopher Swing (35:01)
Yeah.
Ann (35:14)
Whether you call it family or team, it's the culture of being together, of working in unison as opposed to being divided. I've been on both sides of the fence in this in terms of being viewed as a number, an employee, versus being viewed as a...
as a team and in particular one of the boards that I sit on and they have
I think they have over 3,000 employees. still, I mean, their culture is family and they stress that to no end. And I think that that's, to me, the golden rule is the best compass that guides me and probably the best decision for a company, our family, to live by that.
and to embrace the business aspect of things because then you think twice about doing things. It kind of goes back, Chris, to how we built the company in the very beginning. To get our technicians to want to get up at three o'clock in the morning and be there and work some long hours is that why don't we all just think of every surgery that we do that's our grandmother on the table.
And when we started incorporating that into the training process for our technicians, it was a game changer. Because it's all in how you perceive everything. It's all in how that person that's across the desk from me that's not maybe doing their...
job. Maybe it's more than just being obstinate. Maybe they've got something going on in their life that they need to share. treating people like that, I think, has built the business that we have today, has built the culture that we have today.
Christopher Swing (36:47)
Yeah, mean, the only thing I'll add to that is, you know, maybe it's a failure on my part to feel like we're a family, but I can tell you that there aren't too many sports teams when somebody's family's not well or whatever, that they're spending entire lots of time trying to figure out how do we get them back to experience that. I mean, I remember we had an employee whose dad was,
identified that he would probably lose his life within 24 hours. He was like seven hours away. I was trying to figure out a drop a private jet in to pick the guy up going, you know, I don't care what it costs. Like it's not about that to me. It's the unfortunate situation that we assigned him seven hours from here. And now we've got this call and how do we deal with it? And that didn't work out either. We figured out we were adding time, you know, and the amount of risk with weather and things like that in order to
Ann (37:20)
Yeah.
you.
Christopher Swing (37:39)
getting picked up wasn't going to help him. But, you know, we spent like almost an entire day just trying to figure out how to make sure that we gave him every chance to be back with with his family
Ann (37:50)
yeah,
I think about some of the issues that, you know, we always would try to help them solve their family problems, whether it was loaning them money, whether it was giving them points. I remember that whole process that you did gave the hotel points so that they could go out and take care of a family issue. You know, it's just it's just that kind of stuff that you would do for your for your family members. Why not do it for your employees?
Christopher Swing (38:18)
And I think the other side of that is like, yes, I mean, we want to be important to them, but like, we want them to know that we came from the right place when we're dealing with this stuff. That doesn't mean we don't hold people accountable. mean, you know as well as I do, like, we've unfortunately had to hold a lot of people accountable. But it's not out of spite. It's out of love for
them as a person in this organization as an organization and you those, you still have to make those separations at times and coaching, et cetera. But it's, but we do it in a way where they feel like they can bounce from that situation. And you know, I've got like a list of them, you know, just.
Ann (38:57)
Thank you.
Christopher Swing (39:02)
crazy the things that we've had to go through over the years together, but I feel like we always had the integrity, we always had the right interests, you know, of not only the employee, but also the organization as a whole. And, you know, even families have to discipline kids or parts of the family when they, you know, choose to act inappropriately, so.
Ann (39:24)
Yeah,
and I think too another thing that we did right in trying to show our new hires culture was bringing them into Effingham and getting trained in Effingham. That let them see firsthand what we were all about.
And hopefully we're continuing to do that. But I think that that is such an important process because it weeds out those that don't feel comfortable with family environments. And that's okay. But we want to continue to encourage that and let them see how we do that as a business.
Christopher Swing (39:57)
Yeah, and what Anne's referring to there is we operate in like 23, 25 states, something like that. so because they're almost all remote, it's really easy to feel like you're on an island by yourself and then realizing that there's some connection with the organization that's behind them. So tell me, for people who are listening, what do you hope that they take away from your story?
you know, or maybe even the people that are on your boards, like what do you want them to see as and daters? Like what do you hope that they get from you?
Ann (40:33)
I think with this podcast, think obviously the first thing is just believe in God and have Him in your day-to-day living.
You know, I think that the other thing that I had to learn is be patient with God's process. What I thought was going to take 10 years to build the lineage took twice as long. But in that process, worked with a lot of great people, built lasting relations, and don't regret having to go that 20, 30 years, whatever it took.
because ultimately it's the process, it's not the endpoint. And so I think the other thing too is that a takeaway is, as far as my board, I try to incorporate...
things about faith and God. Some are received well, some not so much. In today's environment, you just never know, but I'm not gonna be quiet. So for those who are faith-based, I would encourage you to be outspoken and not apologetic, because I just believe it's so important that we maintain our Christian...
country, I'll say, and continue to promote and believe in how we were raised, how our parents were raised, how our parents' parents were raised. mean, this is where we are today is because of that Christian base. But I think last thing would be that when all else fails with our human approach, give it over to God and see what happens. That was my experience. It was a wonderful experience and everything turned out great.
not without the bumps and bruises. You always have that no matter what, giving it over to God and seeing what can happen is just amazing.
Christopher Swing (42:08)
So one of the greatest gifts that you gave to me is the importance of your network of your network, of a person's network. then the subsequent experience with that is like, Ann has so many contacts in her Outlook that it's really hard for Outlook to even function.
Ann (42:19)
Yeah.
you
Christopher Swing (42:31)
And so there are challenges that come across with having an insane network. But here's what's crazy is if you've interacted in a significant way in any time in, I don't know, maybe even as far back as maybe when you're at SMU, I don't know when your contacts really started to build, but.
But Anne has those contacts. Like she keeps track of the people that she worked with or connected with along the way. And so if I ran across something where I'm like, hey, I really need to get a hold of this person.
Anne was that person that I would always go to to say, hey, do you know how to get a hold of this person? Or who is somebody that we know that would be connected to this person that we need to get a hold of? And that's one of the blessings that I continue to have. And I feel like as part of being a YPO member now, that's really
been something that's inspired me to continue to grow my connections and to figure out like I was trying to get ahold of a CEO of a publicly traded company the other day and as most people know that's not the easiest thing to do. So I reached out to a couple of my contacts and said hey who knows this guy and they sent me a message within 24 hours here's his cell phone number let me know if you need anything else. And so it's like that's the difference in how
Ann (43:52)
Wow.
Christopher Swing (43:56)
you've I mean that's how I do business now comparative to you know when I got here that that wasn't really that important I was from a big company you know after being in a small one and I was just never that that important but I sure appreciate that gift that you gave me. So thank you so much for sharing your time with us today this has been an incredible journey for those of you who
Ann (44:12)
So good.
Christopher Swing (44:19)
didn't see it and has been a significant impact in my life, both personally and professionally. We've had great celebrations and we've had great struggles together. And I think that's how you truly know who's in your corner. And I've always been blessed to
have a response from Anne anytime that I need, somebody to guide me into what steps I should be taking next or how I should focus on resolving an issue. She's always been extremely invaluable in that sense and I appreciate that Anne and what you and.
Dennis and pretty much everybody here, even in Effingham have done for me over the years. As a transplant, you never really know how that works. And at some point along the way, I ended up being the chair of the chamber and all kinds of stuff here. So as a matter of fact, I didn't win a 20 under 40 in Coles County where I'm from, but I did in Effingham. So go figure.
Ann (45:18)
Thank
Christopher Swing (45:19)
It's crazy how life works that way, but I'm sure thankful for everything that you've helped me to grow into, your faith in me, your continued investment alongside of me, and just the valuable relationship that our families have had and will have indefinitely.
Ann (45:37)
Thanks, Chris. Thank you.
Christopher Swing (45:39)
I hope you all enjoyed this.
was a great experience for me. It's super important. That's why it's officially episode number one and will be released as a three part series primarily because I couldn't figure out which one to release. I picked Anna as my very first episode because she's been probably the most impactful in my leadership journey, but
At the same time, I have two amazing missions that I want you guys all to know about. And also, Anne was talking about her human trafficking organization here in Effingham, which is I-5770, right? Anne, isn't that the organization? Yeah. So if you want to give a blessing to Anne or to me, feel free to support any of those organizations. We are...
Ann (46:18)
Yeah, I could do 70 task force, yes.
Christopher Swing (46:30)
super engaged in all of them and grateful for the work that they're doing and the impact that they're having on our community. So with that, see you all soon.
